topic Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 02:25:33 GMT

I am trying to make a 3D printable tiltrotor from surfaces. I have watched many how to videos which have gotten me to a very good point where I have stitched surfaces together and patched up holes. It will be printed in sections. But I am stumped with the complex geometry of a faring at the tip of the wing. It is the juncture between the wing and engine nacelle that covers the actuators that move the nacelle. I am trying to make it solid so that I can put a hole in the end for a post that the engine nacelle will rotate about.

Picture 1 shows a good part of the aircraft left side.

Picture 2 - 4 show various views of the wing and fairing without the engine nacelle

Picture 5 shows just the engine nacelle with the post that will insert into the wing (once I figure this out).

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 02:37:17 GMT

Here are the remaining pictures.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

I have tried the following;

The fairing is too complex for "thicken" to work.

Too many sharp edges for patching the open border.

You can see in picture 3 and 4 that the trailing edge of the fairing does not align with each other, and picture 6 shows just the faring. Note picture 6 is the right faring. I already stitched the left faring (in the other pictures) to the wing so I could not hide the wing.

I would like a solid wing including the faring filled in with a hole for the post that is on the nacelle in picture 5.

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

davebYYPCU — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 04:03:08 GMT

Without the file to check and test, can you answer some questions?

I presume the edges have mating edges for stitching

Is the wing able to be stitched to the fairing,

II the fairing able be stitched to the Nacelle if the internal wall/s was/were hidden?

With a big picture look at it, if the wing was sliced just inboard of the fairing, and you want the outboard section then totally solid?

Then the outer section of the wing, fairing and nacelle should be made into one body in the long run, then you can fill it.

I would research how Boundary Fill works, as I haven't used it enough to advise, but might give some clues....

Might help

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

Beyondforce — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 07:58:00 GMT

Hi @stdubeck,

As @davebYYPCU said, we need the file/s in order to really help you. Did you create the fuselage and the wings in the Form environment?

Cheers / Ben
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Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 12:38:01 GMT

I will attache a subset of the model (hopefully the .f3d is appropriate). I did not create the original model. I imported it from a .stl and started working from there.

I have already stitched the fairing to the wing. I do not want the nacelle to be stitched to the fairing because it needs to rotate relative to the wing and fairing. I created a post extending from the nacelle that will be the pivot point for the nacelle.

The model I will attach is the left wing assembly and nacelle. The Nacelle is blue and needs to rotate relative to the silver wing. The aileron is green and a "nice- to-have" is for that to rotate about pivot points that I have created as semi-spheres at each end (root and tip). I would print the aileron separate and press fit into the wing once I make some semi-sphere indents to accept the aileron semi-sphere bump outs. But this is the next step. I am focusing on the nacelle to wing interface now and your expertise is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

davebYYPCU — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 12:37:22 GMT

Kudos to you on the modelling you have done to date, as a new user of the forums welcome, do not take any of my comments as critisism - it is not,

OK with the intentions you have added to the thread, have a general idea of what you want to do, but will leave the Flaperon till later,

Before long, you will need to cut the body into separate components, like the Flaperon, but not yet. (Flaperon, Nacelle, Wing, fuselage etc)

I have reviewed your file, and say that I don't use Fusion the way you have - I am a timeline modeller, so the DM (required for Mesh as you know) system is a little strange to me, and I am not sure of your expertise in the scheme of things, so I have attached the modified file where I created the stuff I needed to show you what is in store.

I found the detail on the inside wall of the nacelle incredible, I have highlighted in the first pic, the face of the nacelle that I beleive is the closest to the wing, to work from (Pic 1 silver section).

here you will need to consider your construction tolerances. Now we get Fusion to fill in the details,

I created a sketch and projected the Fairing intersection lines

Some of the lower fairing edge from the rear towards the front is already aligned to the "New Face" (rear purple line) and the leading edge penetrates though it front purple line ON the fairing)

The fairing needs to be extended to the sketch, over the top rear area, (Pic 2) I started projecting the outline of the fairing to the sketch, (pic 3) when you finish the projection of this area, and have a complete profile you can patch it, for the "WingTip outer face". With tolerances in mind, finish the Wing-Fairing to become a closed body.

I am away from Fusion the rest of the day.... but have time the rest of the week,,,,

Pics came in, in reverse order,

Might help to keep you going....

Keep us posted

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

davebYYPCU — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 18:39:52 GMT

Sorry was a duplicate post, however my pic captions did not come in,

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 14:49:04 GMT

These pictures show the intended motion of the final 3D Printed assembly. The placement and angle of the pivot pole (Body3) is very important because of the angles of the wing. It has dihedral (angled up relative to horizon) and forward sweep ( angled forward towards the nose). If the nacelle pivot is not correct, when it rotates up it will lean too far outward or inward. Other tolerances are not too critical. There just needs to be some room to prevent interference. Projection of the faring to a plane may work. I guess you project to a plane. Close the loop and extrude back toward the fairing? Then make it a solid piece?

Quote: "I am a timeline modeller, so the DM (required for Mesh as you know) system is a little strange to me, ....."

Time line was only off because I needed to copy these few parts from the full model to a new design so I can attach it in the forum. I never turned it back on. In the full model I have time line on.

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 15:15:05 GMT

I am new to Fusion. Much more experience with Sketchup. But that tool is not the best for this application. Attached are some images of what I accomplished with sketchup. Notice I did not have the nacelle faring in this model either.

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

davebYYPCU — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 00:08:58 GMT

Exactly why we use the CAD systems, to locate your pin with Timeline on, it can be tweaked to suit, however the geometry should give you the pin position.

Looking square on to the Nacelle (from the cabin,) there should be some circular cut lines, ( leading edge area?) the pin will be on centre of those circles.

Thanks for your feedback, we can direct our attention to the right areas.

I created a plane on the face of the Nacelle, (if the nacelle gets modified - the plane goes with it)

Use a sketch on that plane to create the end of wing and Fairing, is square to the pivot pin, wing and Nacelle, should all align.

Now the Fairing has to be extended / cut to the Sketch, Tolerences in mind because across the top area of this new fairing has to fit under the Nacelle lip in the same area. I started projecting the outline of the Fairing to the sketch, edge by edge, did five or six to show you how to get Fusion to do it.

Without the timeline I didn't find the corresponding sketch in the Nacelle for this outline, or portions of it.

So yes extrude the Faring to the new sketch, should be a "flat" and or stepped down a little" section parallel to the wing, for all the area you are building at this stage.

when you close the Fairing it can be made solid, the pivot pin will join / cut into the Nacelle and Fairing. Either or both - it's your design.

Make "Components" for pin, Nacelle, and Revolute Joint for the pin to the Nacelle, then with the mouse you can move the Nacelle and observe the working model.

Happy to help if you get stuck....

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 02:27:45 GMT

"Now the Fairing has to be extended / cut to the Sketch, Tolerences in mind because across the top area of this new fairing has to fit under the Nacelle lip in the same area. I started projecting the outline of the Fairing to the sketch, edge by edge, did five or six to show you how to get Fusion to do it."

I projected the fairing edge to work surface that is aligned to the inner facing side of the nacelle. Close inspection I can not find any gaps yet the boundary is not complete to make a face that can be extruded. Any tricks to making a full loop so that I can extrude?

"Without the timeline I didn't find the corresponding sketch in the Nacelle for this outline, or portions of it. So yes extrude the Faring to the new sketch, should be a "flat" and or stepped down a little" section parallel to the wing, for all the area you are building at this stage."

Do you mean extrude the fairing projection on to the fairing? I don't follow.

My thought was

project the edge of the fairing to a construction surface to make a profile loop of the fairing.
Then extrude this profile fairing shape into the fairing.
Then somehow cut this shape based on the fairing edge geometry that aligns with the nacelle.
Stitch it all together to make a solid body for the wing/fairing combination.

Is that what you were thinking? Need more help please.

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 03:22:54 GMT

Fair projection loop closed by trial and error with redrawing several lines. I can't edit the sketch unless I turn off the time line..

Got and extrusion into the fairing. Now how can I cut that? Is this a good approach?

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 12:35:53 GMT

f3d file attached.

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

davebYYPCU — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 00:51:49 GMT

A combination of your green body extrude and the patch in this file, then close the holes, you are way better at surfacing.

I managed to make the patch I was referring to,

I have modified the original file you attached here, made the components and found I had to move the pin a little bit,

If you right click on the revolve joint in the browser, you can select animate model, and all looks right to me.

hide the nacelle to see the holes that need finishing off.

Might help....

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

stdubeck — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 03:47:32 GMT

I see what you have done and I think I can Patch that up.

I also tried some thing. I sketched some lines across the opening of the fairing and patched them up to create a surface. See pics. I have not started modifying the last version you sent me to see if it will work out better than what I was doing. I like the revolve joint. Can you tell me what you did to better position the rotating pin? I looked at the time line and see the circle you sketched, but I don't know how chose the location.

Thanks

Re: Requesting help to solidify complex surface for printing

davebYYPCU — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 08:10:04 GMT

I might be biased, I like the flat patch, rather than the faceted one you have done, up to you, but some of the patch which ever you use will be visible, at times,

The face is 0.3mm inbaord from the nacelle wall and is parallel to the Nacelle. (Minimum Tolerance I would use, may need to move it)

How?,

I projected the fairing, about a quarant of it, top northwest looking from Cabin, before it became deformed, from about 9 oçlock to 12 oclock. You will see 3 purple points because I deleted the projected curve, but projected end points from it,

then a 3 point circle, gave me the Centre point.

Moved the pin to there,

made a rigid joint with the wing.

As built Revolute Joint with the Nacelle,

then set the Joint limits.

Happy to answer questions I may have created...

Can't select in sculpt mode.

stdubeck — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 12:35:26 GMT

I agree Dave. I have been working on the last version you sent me. I was patching but I keep running into an error Can't create patch toolbody. I select all the edges and it generates a surface. But I get that error when I click OK. My work around that is messy was to sketch in lines across the holes and patch smaller sections. Not always successful. So I want to try to work in the Sculpt environment (to use fill hole command) but nothing seems to be selectable. I even went into the select preferences and checked all. Every thing is greyed out. I activated the component and get the same results.

Anyone have thoughts on why I cant select the surface bodies in Sculpt mode?

Model attached.

Re: Can't select in sculpt mode.

davebYYPCU — Sat, 08 Jul 2017 22:02:47 GMT

Ok, I can't explain / fix the patch error/s, and I only have a basic grip on T-Splines,

I think, to some degree, that way the Fairing was made maybe an underlying contributor.

i would try converting the flat patch to T-Spline, and make a new Fairing from what we have so far,

maybe @TrippyLighting or @cekuhnen with their expertise with this style of modelling can assist.

Sorry can't take it any further, you have started exceeding my levels of expertise.

Browny

Re: Can't select in sculpt mode.

jeff_strater — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:42:57 GMT

I can maybe try to help here.

First, to address the specific question in the last post: Yes, this is correct, you cannot select surface bodies in the Sculpt workspace. You can only select TSpline bodies in Sculpt mode. However, you can snap to other types of geometry in Sculpt mode, using the "Snap Object" UI in the Create Face or Edit Form UI:

But, to the question of how to cap off this part of the design: @stdubeck, can you provide a screencast and the corresponding version of the model where the preview for the boundary patch works, but it fails when you hit OK? This is most definitely a bug, and I suspect that I know what area it might be in, but would need the data and workflow to investigate.

The latest version of the model posted here looks like this:

Is what you want to just have a planar face across the top of this? If so, then yes, this is going to be a bit of a challenge. The data here is pretty messy - lots of gaps, lots of bits sticking up that will have to be trimmed off, etc. It can probably be done, but is going to be painful. If this is what you want, let me know, and I'll see what I can do.

Jeff

Re: Can't select in sculpt mode.

stdubeck — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 23:30:35 GMT

Thanks for weighing in Jeff. If you can recommend some screen cast software I will be able to make the video of the problem happen. I have never done a screen cast video.

My intent with this is to make a 3D printable model. I started by importing a .stl with all surface bodies. From there I am picking the model apart and closing up holes to make printable parts. If you check a few of the earlier posts you can see how these particular parts will align.

The failed patch happens in the version of the model I posted last. In picture below the long hole is where this issue occurs. I select all the edges and the patch appears until you click OK. The error message says it can't create the toolbody.

Quote: "Is what you want to just have a planar face across the top of this? If so, then yes, this is going to be a bit of a challenge. The data here is pretty messy - lots of gaps, lots of bits sticking up that will have to be trimmed off, etc. It can probably be done, but is going to be painful. If this is what you want, let me know, and I'll see what I can do."

I don't necessarily need a flat capped off area, but that will butt up against the engine nacelle that will rotate about a shaft that is inserted into the wing. So I do need some clearance for rotation. I don't want to trim off the bits that are sticking up. They mate up with shapes on the nacelles and I want some accuracy. I would like to thicken those parts so they can be printed. I also tried the thicken command on the fairing before I stitched it to the wing. It would fail unless I selected all faces except one that was sticking out. It would thicken, but outwardly, not inwardly. So that would not work for me. This flat surface could be intended too. You really wont see much of it on the model. On the real aircraft this is a fairing that covers moving parts. It is purely aerodynamic.

Any help would be great.

Also, is there a way to convert a surface body to a T Spline body so that I can use the Sculpt tools?

Thanks

Scott