topic Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:22:15 GMT

Hello Class, hope this message finds you and your family doing well. I need your help with a problem I've run into. I'm getting an error message when I try to combine two bodies to perform a cut. I'm using one body as tool that I created from a Setup in CAM as my die to create a jig for a second operation for the guitar neck that I was working on. The original imported mesh file was an .stl. I edited the mesh file to reduce the number of faces to under 10,000 before I converted it to a b-rep. I did have to move this body over in order to align it with the jig stock I wanted to combine it with. I've attached a screen shot as well as the file. I know you are extremely busy but I would greatly appreciate any help you could provide. I'm so close to finally making this guitar neck a reality and could really use some help.

Best Regards.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:48:07 GMT

@jeff.starter, @PhilProcarioJr

Hi Guys, really could use some help here. I've been working quite a bit on finishing the guitar neck for the body I already finished and have run into some big issues. I've done quite a bit of research on the forum and the lessons but can't really find the answer to the problem I'm having. I would really appreciate it if you guys could have a look at the screenshot and the file I posted in my first post where I reached out to Claas. I've been going in circles and am so close to being able to machine the neck. Now, I can't even get to the point where I was in my first post. I now apparently have way more faces in my stl file than before. I tried to reduce the number of faces but it doesn't make a difference. I've even saved the stl file as an obj and imported it back in with no luck. I understand that stl files are not really compatible because they have triangular faces instead of quad faces but even the tools to edit the mesh file don't seem to help. I'm really lost right now and need some help. I've attached my recent file where I've gone back in the timeline to before I imported my stl file. I've also attached my stl but can't attach my obj file as I keep getting a message that the file doesn't match the file extension even though I've checked the file properties and it does. Please let me if you need anything else from me.

Thanks.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

PhilProcarioJr — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:57:38 GMT

@oldtbone55

Using a .stl file for what you are trying to do is a really really bad idea.

You should be using two CAD models for this.

My guess would be that you have two edges/faces that cause the error.....finding the offending edge could prove to be more work then it is worth.

This is just not the way you should be doing this.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 18:08:28 GMT

@PhilProcarioJr

Hello Phil and thanks kindly for your reply. You are 100% correct, using an stl file for this is a very bad idea. The funny thing though is, up until the last couple of updates, I was able to do this with no problem. I was having other issues running a sim in CAM that may have something to do with it but I was able to convert the mesh to a b-rep and then combine my two bodies to get the jig I needed to support the neck when I machine the other side. You're saying I should be using two CAD models, how so?

Thanks.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

PhilProcarioJr — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 18:10:34 GMT

@oldtbone55

Make a solid block around your guitar neck and subtract your neck from the block to create your jig.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 21:59:35 GMT

@PhilProcarioJr It was my idea to do it that way as at the time it worked fine with no issue and it gave a indication on where a crash was if there was one. Now it's no good.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 00:23:35 GMT

I am just waiting on a vid to load up I say what I am doing to the jig.

Example attached you can step through the timeline to see it anyway.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

jeff_strater — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 02:23:58 GMT

Sorry, just getting around to this. Yes, I agree with others here that round-tripping through STL back into modeling to create a jig to hold the neck is not a good idea. The "inconsistent graph vertices" error (which is embarrassingly unhelpful - this is generated from the modeling kernel) usually indicates trying to subtract one body with faces/edges that are very close to, but not exactly coincident with, the target body. If you are round-tripping through STL, that situation is likely to occur. If it worked in the past, to be honest, it was sheer luck. The video shared by @daniel_lyall is a much better way to do this, IMO.

Jeff

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 03:04:59 GMT

@daniel_lyall

Hello Daniel, thanks for the great video. Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. I've stepped through your file and the video and understand what you've done. I do have a question regarding the jig. Since the overall length of it is shorter than the Op2 stock, when you place it over the jig to do the final operation on the underside of the neck, the Op2 stock will be overhanging the jig. The way you did it before, the Op2 stock sat supported on the full length of the jig. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Would it be possible, or necessary, to modify the jig so that it supports the whole length of the Op 2 stock as it did before? I'm just curious.

My Gratitude & Thanks.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 03:08:57 GMT

@jeff_strater

Hi Jeff, thanks for the reply. I definitely have to agree with you. The method Daniel has shown me certainly works. I've spent a huge amount of time on this chasing ghosts I guess. Just seems strange that what was working several weeks ago suddenly doesn't work any more. Looks like this one can be put to bed and I can get on with making my neck now.

Cheers!

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 03:48:24 GMT

I have been thinking on that, I just had a big job to get done first and it is finally done the one I said about in the Email.

If the jig is taken from the top of the stock when you do the facing op you are only squirreling the top of, then from then on there is nothing removed from the ends, but you can not quite do it that way.

So the jig is from the top of the model and above and into it a bit (this part is what the combine cut and the side extrude are for), like how you have it set up then you remove the section from the jig where it has been already cut in the first op what is the main sections of the guitar (what's left is the top faces of the guitar), then you move the origin to the bottom of the jig when you cut the jig out.

You can do a sketch on the side to cut the ends out instead of extrude cutting them down from where the guitar lies in the stock or just extrude them down a bit, you can put a plane on the bottom of the guitar (top highest point) and use that as what to extrude cut too

end of part one have tea to cook.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 04:29:20 GMT

Now to the setup for the guitars second op, the jig is incorporated into the setup and you can see it all then if you leave the origin on the bottom of the jig fusion know what's there. you add the jig to the model selection in the setup and I added the jig to the jig selection so it would say if it hits the jig.

When the jig is incorporated to the model you can see if the setup for the second cut on the guitar is wrong and you can select the bottom of the jig as the origin.

When you go to do the toolpaths you just pick the guitar as the model, as you have set the setup correct it will or should only cut what's selected but say if it does hit the jig in sim.

Hope that rambal helps.

@jeff_strater There is something going on from the september updates before the 2nd op stock was fine just a little bit slow nothing bad after the updates it's a no go, being able to use the second op model is something a lot of people wont in fusion and it is being worked to.

I would not of suggested to Tony to use the second op stock to make the jig if it was bad, it was not so I ran with it.

There has been a lot of little things going wrong since then but I have had to work out fast how to get around them so I have not reported them, most of them are WTF bugs I posted in the cam forum last night one I have been hitting.

And yes as normal I can get around them or fix it or find a new workflow that works. I have nocked of doing private 101 with fusion users thing are get to hard haveing to find work arounds and fight bugs, on the forum it's not so bad as there might be other suggestions, When things get better I will pick it back up it's been a nightmare lately.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 04:30:35 GMT

Example attached @oldtbone55

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

PhilProcarioJr — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 20:27:15 GMT

@daniel_lyall

I understand that at one point it may have worked, but mixing .stl files with CAD is just asking for trouble. CAD apps are not polygon modelers and in a nut shell an .stl file is nothing more then a bunch of polygon triangles. There can even be holes in the shell which can cause all kinds of problems when machining.

People want to be able to use their models from 2nd op because that's easier then doing it properly. Taking short cuts only causes headaches and I have even seen this method trash parts when running the CNC machine. It even crashed a holder once....

Either way you guys can do what you want but I can promise you sooner or later this method will make you wish you had never done it.

The method shown in your video here is the way to go. Ditch the .stl method before it causes you headaches.

Just my 2 cents

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 20:40:09 GMT

A few people I trust have said don't do it so I wont, your 2 cents is always welcome @PhilProcarioJr

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:57:18 GMT

@daniel_lyall, @PhilProcarioJr, @jeff_strater

Well gentlemen, the verdict is unanimous. It definitely has been a lot less of a headache and much easier on the nerves making the jig the 'old fashioned way'. I think there used to be a commercial with that tag line in a few years ago. Even if it takes a bit longer to do it sure beats the amount of time I've been spending trying to do it using the stl file. You just don't realize how good it feels to stop banging your head against the wall until you stop doing it. Is there a program out there that can convert an stl file into a useable format for Fusion or is this a feature that's built into some of the other CAD programs? I haven't tried this yet but Sketchup seems capable of dealing with stl files. I might just try it out of curiosity.

Thanks again guys.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:13:06 GMT

Don't bother with sketchup Tony it's a dead end, I went there before fusion I never went back.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:27:52 GMT

@daniel_lyall

Hello Daniel, thanks kindly for the new updated file. I got to thinking about the jig a bit more and made another change to it. I wanted the jig to have alignment points at each end so when the Op2 stock is placed on it the jig will hold it in place just like the original jig that was made using the Op2 stl file. I projected the headstock onto the jig, closed it off by adding a couple of sketch lines and then extruded it down to the same level as the other end of the jig. I think this gives more overall support and less chance for the stock to move as well as keeping everything aligned. I've attached my file for your review and approval, I just haven't finished working on the CAM operations yet. The one thing that needs to be addressed is the shape of the jig at the one end. The jig is squared off but the Op2 stock is curved. That needs to be changed to allow the jig and Op2 stock to fit together. I'll send you an update as soon as I'm done.

Cheers!

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

daniel_lyall — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:41:14 GMT

There's no harm in trying whatever you feel like doing it helps with the learning.

It looks to be inline it will be close if all else fails it wont be hard to make a new one, and if more needs taken off you can do it there and then just remember to take your laptop with you.

Re: Error Message When combining bodies - inconsistent graph vertices

oldtbone55 — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 02:33:11 GMT

@daniel_lyall

Hey Daniel, attached is my latest attempt. I've completed all of the Setups and toolpaths. It seems to be working well except that I need to adjust the distance that's extruded at the ends of the jig so that the Op2 stock sits tighter on it. Do you have any suggestions on how I would do this? Is there a way to measure the distance between the Op2 stock after it's been cut and the end of the jig? The CAM environment doesn't let you measure anything if you don't exit the toolpath and there's no way to figure this out in the model environment. This was something that wasn't necessary with the method previously used. I've attached the file as well as a screenshot of what I'm talking about.