topic Re: Insert Fastener issues in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Insert Fastener issues

timothyhinessr — Sun, 04 Aug 2024 03:34:08 GMT

I finally found time today to familiarize myself with the Insert Fastener feature in Fusion. It's pretty straightforward for the most part but I've encountered some issues with a model I'm working on. (see attached) I'm trying to insert a bolt with a washer under it into a hole inside of a slightly larger counterbored hole, or what I would call an open counterbored hole or slot, where I want the bolt and washer on top of the upper feature, not the lower one. It's nice that Fusion allows you to change the length and/or diameter of the inserted nut, bolt or washer after you place it, but it doesn't allow you to raise it up or lower it. To do that, you have to place it, which closes the insert fastener dialogue box, and then choose edit joint from either the feature tree or the timeline and move it up or down from there. I've also noticed that if you insert a single nut, bolt, or washer, Fusion adds a joint in the timeline. But if you use the select similar option to place multiple nuts, bolts or washers, a joint icon isn't added to the timeline. However, each of the iterations created are added to the feature tree as individual joints. Unfortunately, in order to raise or lower each of the iterations, you must select and edit each joint separately. If you highlight all the joints in the feature tree and click edit joint, it only allows you to edit the last selected joint. I understand that I could create a sketch point above the hole on the proper plane and locate the fastener off that point but that involves creating more sketches and possibly additional offset planes that can be quite time consuming. I played with it for quite a while and searched the forum and the internet and didn't find a solution. If I'm missing something and there is actually a way to do this already, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Tim

Re: Insert Fastener issues

Drewpan — Sun, 04 Aug 2024 05:30:38 GMT

Hi,

A couple of points. If you simply insert a fastener then there should not be a joint created unless you tell it to create

the joint. I think you will find that the fastener may be located where you want it but it will be able to be moved

around. It is not fixed in any way. The joint icon in the timeline tells you it is fixed. If you actually create a joint you

should be able to reposition the parts you are joining for offsets for example.

One way you might be able to get around your multiple joints and hardware problem might be to create a rigid group

of parts floating in space at the correct relative positions and then use a single joint on one of the parts. This will treat

the rigid group as a giant part.

My last point is why you are using all of these parts? Are they necessary for a functional model or are you creating

a representative model? A functional model assumes that two parts are joined together but there is no actual bolt

or fastener. There is usually no need because the model is just showing you the functions. A representative model has

all of the bolts and screws and washers modeled and in place like what you might find in an exploded drawing being

used for advertising or as an assembly guide.

The reason I ask this is because while you may have the capability of putting all of these washers and bolts into your

model but the overhead for performance can be severe. What is the point of modeling the threads of a bolt that is

buried deep inside the model when you cannot see it? Fusion will do it but is it really necessary?

A common reason I have seen people use these fasteners and such is to get the Bill of Materials correct. Again it is

all very well to have them laid out nicely on a BOM but if in reality you will just order a box of 1000 then is it really

necessary?

When it comes down to it, a model is going to represent how the real thing looks and works in simulation. Just

because you have a rigid joint that is secured with a bolt, two washers, a lock washer and a nut does not mean you

need to see it to simulate how it works. The joint is rigid is good enough.

If it is your flagship product and is going into an international publication and needs to accurate then fair enough.

What I am suggesting is if you don't need it then your time can be better spend with other stuff.

Cheers

Andrew

Re: Insert Fastener issues

timothyhinessr — Mon, 05 Aug 2024 01:48:04 GMT

Thanks Andrew for taking the time to reply. I've done some additional testing on a simple test model today and Fusion does create rigid joints between the fastener(s) and the model when they are inserted via the insert fastener command. A joint icon is added to the timeline when a single fastener is added but when multiple fasteners are added by checking the "select similar" box, the joints are added in the feature tree only. The only way to move any of the inserted fasteners is via the edit joint command. A rigid group can be created from multiple inserted fasteners but they cannot be moved via the move command as Fusion won't let you select the group or any of the individual fasteners within the group. Additionally, Fusion won't allow you to place an inserted fastener "in space". The only way you can place an inserted fastener is to snap it to a feature on your model or previously inserted fastener. I have found that Fusion will allow you to insert a bolt into a hole with a counterbore so that the bottom of the head is flush with the surface of the part but only if the hole is centered in the counterbore. If the hole isn't centered in the counterbore, such as the case with my model, there is no geometry on the upper level directly above the hole for Fusion to snap to.

As for your question as to why I'm "using all of these parts". In the case of the model I attached to my post, adding the fasteners isn't at all "necessary". I only did it because it's a model I was working on at the time I decided to familiarize myself with the Insert Fastener command I'd not yet used. Is it a major deal for me to edit six different joints individually in order to move a fastener up or down a little? No, it's not. Fusion is constantly working to improve functionality so users can get more done with fewer clicks and I'm not in any way hating on Fusion. I love Fusion and appreciate every improvement they make. But if Fusion can give you the ability to insert multiple fasteners at the same time, and allow you to change the length and diameter of them all at the same time, why couldn't it also give you the ability to move them up or down at the same time?

Re: Insert Fastener issues

-KyleWilliams- — Thu, 15 Aug 2024 17:00:48 GMT

Hey @Drewpan

Thanks for the question. You are correct that the current implementation of insert fastener is not well suited in the case of slots. In cases like this, as you mentioned a dedicated sketch is required. I'll bring your dataset to the developers as an example and feature request.

Thanks

Re: Insert Fastener issues

timothyhinessr — Fri, 16 Aug 2024 00:32:03 GMT

Thanks Kyle that would be great.

Re: Insert Fastener issues

-KyleWilliams- — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 15:08:27 GMT

Hey @timothyhinessr

After some discussion I think the best current practice would be as shown in this video for slots.

(view in My Videos)

Hope this is helpful.