topic Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4 in Fusion Design, Validate & Document Forum

Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

howardkinkade — Sat, 09 Nov 2024 19:12:04 GMT

Ok it’s time for a new computer. My current Apple computer is 7+ years old. The new Mac Mini appears to be the best machine for my needs. Now, how to most practically spec out the processor and ram.

FUSION WORKS OK’ish for me now. But, cam tool path generation is often painfully slow, tool path simulation can also be painfully slow. I don’t do much rendering, but will in the future. The new M4 chip and running Fusion native on it should certainly be a big plus.

Here’s my questions:

* which cpu m4 or m4 pro. I know single core performance is key for much of Fusion tasks. Which areas of my use case will benefit from the Pro chip?

* Which part of Fusion would, if any, benefit from the improved GPU’s (i.e. tool path gen, tool path simulations. . .)?

* Ram is always expensive for Apple products. At what point does more Ram have dimensioning returns?

The new Mac Mini, even in its base configuration, will certainly do me well. But I’m getting older and don’t like watching my time waste away waiting for tools paths to generate and simulate 😉 I typically keep my computers for 7-10 years, so a little future proofing is always ok.

Please, let me know what parts of Fusuon work flow benefit from the different upgrades available on the new Apple Mac Mini with the M4 chip. Thanks

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

TrippyLighting — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 11:14:09 GMT

You may want to check how much memory Fusion and your current models occupy.

If that turns out to be Ok, then a base mac mini should be great.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

Leo_Dyn — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 13:05:38 GMT

As far as the GPU goes, to my recollection, and unless something has changed... only rendering is really helped out in Fusion with a GPU.

There are some caveats probably, like having a discrete GPU would help in that it doesn't consume unified memory, rather it has its own, where most (all???) integrated video has to also share the standard system RAM.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

TrippyLighting — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 13:17:27 GMT

The GPU is NOT used for rendering, not has that ever been the case.

The GPU is used solely for viewport display

Rendering is CPU only!

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

Leo_Dyn — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 13:40:36 GMT

Ouch. Saw bad info then, should have known better as it wasn't an official source. But it seemed logical.

Hopefully one day Fusion gets GPU support across the board. For rendering and more importantly to me for the design space, as I have yet to ever render anything ever anyway.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

howardkinkade — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 14:53:38 GMT

Good discussion. Thanks!

From what I’m hearing here, CPU performance (single core) and RAM are the key drivers. The clock speed of the basic Mac Mini vs Mac Mini Pro are the same, but other attributes of these two CPU’s are different. Which cpu benchmarks would be good indicators of CPU performance that would benefit Fusion performance? As far as RAM goes, more the better, but at what point is there dimensioning return? I’m sure that has a lot to do with model sizes.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

howardkinkade — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 22:52:14 GMT

I’ve reviewed many M4 vs M4 Pro single core benchmarks. The performance of the single core CPU’s between these two are nearly identical. So unless I’m missing something, I don’t see any value in the M4 Pro over the standard M4 for Fusion performance.

Trippylighting indicated viewport display may be enhanced with improved graphics. I’m not certain if that could become an issue or not. During what Fusion operations does this become taxed ( I.e. tool path simulation, moving a rendered model on the display . . .). In the future I will likely have two 4K-5K 27” monitors. Any feedback on how the graphics performance may impact my workflow with an upgrade? Seems to me this may be unlikely considering much of Fusions performance relies on single core processing. The multitasking I’d do across the two monitors would be internet, perhaps with a YouTube video.

Trippylighting also suggested checking how much of my current RAM is being utilized. I now have 40gb of RAM, but on an Intel based machine. I have not notice whether or not I’ve been limited there, likely not. If I go standard M4 I’ll probably do 32 gb, if M4 Pro I’ll probably go with the std. 24 gb, 48 gb is a $400 up charge.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

howardkinkade — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 23:16:24 GMT

Well it appears I was missing something. Autodesk recommendations for Fusion states:

“Tool path generation and simulation are multi-threaded operations that will benefit from an increase in core count”

As toolpath generation has been something that slows my workflow considerably, perhaps I would benefit from the added multi core speed of the M4 Pro chip.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

TrippyLighting — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 02:33:38 GMT

@howardkinkade wrote:

Trippylighting indicated viewport display may be enhanced with improved graphics.

I did not indicate that. I simply stated that's the only area where Fusion uses the GPU 😉

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

howardkinkade — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:34:16 GMT

Trippylighting, true that, sorry.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

antonio_zanella — Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:16:48 GMT

Let's not forget that read and write speed on the internal SSD on the M4 Pro version is double compared to M4. Maybe that can help with general performance on swap (ram) file speed when unified memory is low.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

glenQSNHX — Sun, 17 Nov 2024 01:05:45 GMT

Fusion really is the worst when it comes to what they call "mac support". It has previously run like a web app, even on a m2 max with 96g. I just recently upgraded to the m4 max with 128g, however, and it actually runs pretty well, which is suprising. I've developed an unhealthy love/hate relationship with fusion because the experience on the mac is so poor, but for now, I'm satisfied.

It should be noted that I have colleagues that think it runs fine on an m1, but quite frankly, they have low standards. I don't have that kind of patience.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

TrippyLighting — Sun, 17 Nov 2024 12:33:36 GMT

Can you provide some models and examples where newer Macs run slow?

The Fusion team is keenly interested in those.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

howardkinkade — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 21:24:37 GMT

Well I’ve ordered the Mac Mini, M4 Pro, 48 GB RAM, 1 TB HD. Perhaps it will be over spec’d, but better over than under (except for cost). I’ll let everyone know how I feel about the mini after some use.

This thread and my research presents what could be a good opportunity for computer selection for us in the future. There are many computer reviews with lots of standard benchmark test results and users showing how new computers perform with some random applications. From those reviews it’s hard to decipher performance for our application, Fusion. Perhaps we can create some standard models that could be run by users here with their machine configurations to create a reasonable Fusion specific benchmarking tool. Various aspects of use can be tested consistently from these standard models, such as rendering, large model management, tool path generation, tool simulation. . .

Of course it’s not just the machine, but also how you have setup various parameters in Fusion that can make a performance difference . We could perhaps ‘pin’ these standard models for user use on their setups and create performance comparisons (hardware and parameter settings). I suspect this may also help debug some user performance issues.

your thoughts?

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

TrippyLighting — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 18:37:28 GMT

@howardkinkade wrote:

I’ll let everyone know how I feel about the mini after some use.

That would indeed be nice!

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

holmudden — Thu, 28 Nov 2024 09:33:19 GMT

@howardkinkade wrote: "I’ll let everyone know how I feel about the mini after some use."

I am very interested in this as well. I am considering upgrading from my old MacBook Pro 2019 (Intel) to the Mac Mini M4 Pro with the upgraded 14/20-core processor, standard 24GB RAM, and 512GB SSD storage.

I primarily work on CAD designs for clients, as well as 3D printing and extensive CAM/post-processing for my CNC machine. Therefore, performance in these areas is crucial to me.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

glenQSNHX — Thu, 28 Nov 2024 09:45:33 GMT

The speed difference across the board will be night and day between those two computers.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

glenQSNHX — Thu, 28 Nov 2024 09:46:02 GMT

The speed difference across the board will be night and day between those two computers.

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

lazykranch149 — Thu, 05 Dec 2024 02:11:23 GMT

Did you get Fusion to install on your Mac mini? I just tried to install it and it gets to 98% done and throws an error (see attached screen shot). Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Re: Apple Computer Purchase, Recommened Specifications, Mac Mini M4

lazykranch149 — Thu, 05 Dec 2024 02:12:24 GMT

By the way, I have the exact Mac mini config that you do.