topic Re: Ripup - polygon in EAGLE Forum

Ripup - polygon

havlicek6TH3H — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 11:47:26 GMT

Hi,

I´ve found something little bit confusing with ripup command.

Ripup command generally works as delete for special entities like traces, vias, signals but polygon version of Ripup works only as hide/show for polygon copper.

I think that this is little bit confusing and ripup command should only delete entities.

It´s good feature to hide polygons copper but I think it shouldn´t be under the ripup command.

Just my opinion.

Best regards,

Vojta

Re: Ripup - polygon

one-of-the-robs — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 12:28:21 GMT

Well... it has always been like that.

The action of ripup is never truly "delete". It doesn't remove the trace, it converts it back to unrouted. That's quite different. There is no exact equivalent of that for polygons but the "convert back to outline" is kinda similar. Yes, it could be argued that it's different enough to justify a different command but... well, that approach is going to generate a LOT of new commands. How is filling the polygon the same as re-calculating airwires? It's not, so that needs separate commands. Some commands do different things in schematic vs. board - does that need a whole set of different commands? And is ripup of a via actually the same as ripup of a trace? You could argue it's not, so yet more commands. How far do you take it?

Re: Ripup - polygon

Anonymous — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 13:37:19 GMT

As someone already answered ripup and delete have different purposes. What might be confusing is that polygons may seem at first to need 3 functions (un-fill, remove from board, remove from design) but since polygons are not part of the schematic design only two functions are needed (un-fill, and remove from board).

The general idea of delete is that it removes something from your circuit - that is, from both the board and the schematic. I general don't and in many instances cannot use delete in the board editor for this reason. Some items will display an error if you try to delete them from the board editor telling you to delete them in the schematic editor instead. Generally, you don't want to change the circuit design when laying out a PCB that has the circuit already designed.

The general idea of ripup is that it removes something from the board but does not remove it from the schematic - leaving the circuit design.

Having these two tools and having two needs for polygons it makes sense to some to match them up the way they currently work. While polygon is not part of the schematic editor, one could argue it is like a circuit design choice on the board editor - sometimes it may be used for example to fit a calculated thermal requirement and in that way it may have been carefully crafted / designed. When you need to un-fill the polygon but don't want to remove the design you use ripup, just like when you want to remove a trace but don't want to remove the circuit design you use ripup. When you do want to remove the polygon you want to delete it's design. This is how I've looked at it.

Re: Ripup - polygon

Pieter.Jan.Van.de.Maele — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:01:27 GMT

You are correct and at some point we will change this. As someone pointed out, we're dealing with the legacy behavior here and haven't gotten to this yet but it has been on our todo list since the acquisition. Hope to improve this soon! Thanks for showing that users care about this.

Re: Ripup - polygon

Anonymous — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 13:42:14 GMT

It is of my opinion that this functionality is not broken or necessarily in need of improvement. It always makes me nervous when Autodesk seems to take every single forum post asking a question as a sign to make a major change and then ignores thousands of users asking for the change not to be done. Changing something for the sake of claiming improvement is not necessarily improvement. IMO Autodesk has done a poor job of market research into user's wants.

Re: Ripup - polygon

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 12:33:25 GMT

Fully agree! After enjoying several years of original Eagle, I am now spending hours searching forums trying to do basic things like: Group Delete, Group Ripup and several other operations that should have left intact.

Why did deleting suddenly become such laborious operation! Before, I could click and the nearest object would be deleted, even, if it is not very close. Now, I have to precise point one by one. It is extremely frustrating to lose very useful features.

I really want to roll back and do design quickly.

Re: Ripup - polygon

rachaelATWH4 — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 12:56:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Fully agree! After enjoying several years of original Eagle, I am now spending hours searching forums trying to do basic things like: Group Delete, Group Ripup and several other operations that should have left intact.

These basic operations have not changed.

@Anonymous wrote:

Why did deleting suddenly become such laborious operation! Before, I could click and the nearest object would be deleted, even, if it is not very close. Now, I have to precise point one by one. It is extremely frustrating to lose very useful features.

My best guess as to why it's not behaving how you expect is your "Group Command Default On" setting. That was a new "feature" which came early in v8 and EAGLE works far better with that setting turned right back off again. It'll put the way EAGLE determines objects for selection back to how it was.

The other thing with very new versions of EAGLE is there is now the Selection Filter. This is really powerful and makes it much easier to select exactly what you want and not some other nearby item.

Best Regards,

Rachael

Re: Ripup - polygon

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:25:59 GMT

Thank you very much for replying, Rachel.

- Where could I find the "Group Command Default On" settings?

- And overall, are there options to make the Eagle 9 as close in all basic settings to Eagle 6.6 as possible? I simply want to complete boards. I don't want to fight with the tool and settings. I was perfectly fine with the original Eagle.

Thank you in advance 😉

Re: Ripup - polygon

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:30:45 GMT

After browsing forums, found 🙂

Great to be back into normal mode!

Thank you for hinting!

Re: Ripup - polygon

rachaelATWH4 — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 14:26:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

After browsing forums, found 🙂
Great to be back into normal mode!

Excellent, I'm glad it's now working again how you expect. Imagine our consternation when v8.0.0 was released without the ability to go back to the old way! Thankfully they added that back in pretty quickly to get it back to working sensibly!

I know you want it to just behave like 6.6 so you can get on with your work but seriously do take the time to learn the new features as there's some real productivity goldmines in there. If you want any more pointers feel free to ask!

Best Regards,

Rachael