topic Eagle 9.2.2 design block evaluation in EAGLE Forum

Eagle 9.2.2 design block evaluation

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 13:50:14 GMT

First, I started typing this on the old traditional NNTP forum. I tried to go to the new forum, it tooks me a couple of minutes to find it. I also remembered that I posted a shortcut on this traditional forum some time ago, but it took me a while to bring back the memory. So here I am, on the new loud, attention grabbing, bloated forum 😉

I am running Eagle 9.2.2 cause I wanted to put the design block feature to the test, but I have some issues understanding how Cadsoft/Autocad have been planning this feature.

Having barely touched the module system in 7.x, I was imagining the design blocks would be an extended version of this. I was imagining I have to define a design block, define it's ports, then just add the module/block to the main schematics, where they would pop up as boxes with mentioned ports, have their local signals indexed with an instance(module) name, and let me go into each individual to change them at instance level or global level.

I was first a bit disappointed. This was not how Cadsoft/Autodesk is thinking. A design block seems to add at the base of the structure, then thinking I should probably make a module first, then add my design block there, and then do what I initially wanted.

I was disappointed once more. Design blocks simply can not go into modules. (Work to do here Autodesk!)

This means, *for all of my 16 indentical block design instances* I need for my project, I have to go through ALL (approx 60) net names and not only pick wich ones should be global or local, but also rename them individual instead clicking wich one should have a local "indexed" name. (How likely is that to work out well?) If I could have done that at the block level instead of instance level, I would not have to bother with all those nets more than once.

Another funny effect is that the list of "old name" vs "new name" (What ARE those columns containing '|' ?? They are missing popup text..) popping up when adding a block design seems to automatically suggest indexed (local) names for nets having no label (or xref) attached, but I visually name all my block design nets to know what they are, even if I want them locally unique.
I would much more prefer if Eagle would use all xref'd signals as exposed ports. (I've mentioned this before; xref is a bad name for a visually appearing page connector)

An alternative suggestion would be to look at symbol pin directions. If a net is a net missing an output or input pin, the port connection and direction is pretty clear.
But most of all, I would like that visual port connector that I can put on my schematic, with arrow direction and all. All module/design block nets will have to be local unless its a port.

Now forgive me for not reading the manual from page to page (I did have a look at the topic tho) so I may have missed something, but I am kinda spoilt with software. There is no reason why Eagle should not sort common problems the best way for the customer.

Re: Eagle 9.2.2 design block evaluation

edpataky — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 17:52:59 GMT

>> There is no reason why Eagle should not sort common problems the best way for the customer.

absolutely we agree 🙂

... regarding the comments about the UI, again we agree, it can use some love and it will get it .. thanks for the input .. the more people who ask about it the more priority we can put on it, so thanks again .. design blocks are a certainly a very powerful new feature, allowing re-use of schematic circuit blocks (along with their layout), but they do need some attention to make them even more useful. We will review all of this as we are discussing improvements for design blocks

Re: Eagle 9.2.2 design block evaluation

jjm17XBGQ — Sun, 18 Nov 2018 00:00:34 GMT

As you like, here the same request. Changes in a design block will not change your design on update, you have to rebuild every instance separately. Autocad blocks updates all instances since version 2.x (i now because i work since then with it).

My impression is that this function is enhanced cut and paste. Imo and at a first glance it needs a little more.

Further the handling can be more practical.
1. If you save a design block you don't see existing blocks. The build process is divided in naming/commenting

and after you leave this part and have to save it in the next dialogue, why? You don't see your existing design blocks and have to retype the comments too (which is not very helpful if you edit one).

1.1. Same if you insert one, the file dialogue did not show the comments. A little lacking because this is the moment i need them and for what i made them.

2. Command for design block creation is in the file drop down menu. For inserting you have to find out that there is a button. A little inconsistent imo. Further there is no console command (i use the console in eagle) and the help system did not find this function when i type "he design".

3. If you group net/components in the schematic (which is the underlying function to create a design block ) and call the command after this the function show inconsistent behaviour. Some times the status line shows hints from the group command, some times from design block creation.

4. Let me say that i think that eagle is on a good way. But sometimes methink that it need a beta program to test new functions in the field.

Design blocks simply can not go into modules.

Much better approach imo is to enhance the design blocks with a module and make them independent.
Drag and drop them from the file system into your design like every modern Mcad system do it with e.g. .step/.iges files.

This gets rid of a new function(s) in eagle you have to learn (simply a selection in file open or so). After you can manage them on a central point in the network . This is way easier for a single user or a design group to handle.

Re: Eagle 9.2.2 design block evaluation

edpataky — Sun, 18 Nov 2018 18:25:15 GMT

>> Changes in a design block will not change your design on update, you have to rebuild every instance separately. Autocad blocks updates all instances since version 2.x (i now because i work since then with it).

>> My impression is that this function is enhanced cut and paste. Imo and at a first glance it needs a little more.

Design blocks are a very powerful feature that allow you to save a schematic and board layout of a module together in one dbl file that you can easily reuse in other designs .. so for example if you have already painstakingly laid out a complex module you can simply place it in any design after it is saved as a design block, and you dont need to relayout the board portion. This enables fast reuse of these modules. Imagine that you have a Bluetooth module that you use in many designs for example, there is no need to open those designs and try to copy and paste the schematic and then re-layout the board portion, that would be definitely more time-consuming and more error prone. That being said, it can be done better and we will improve it .. thank you for the input and we will review all of it in detail

Re: Eagle 9.2.2 design block evaluation

jjm17XBGQ — Sun, 18 Nov 2018 18:52:45 GMT

Ed, surely the design blocks have a (if you like) superb functionality and surely everything can made better.
But as mentioned before, the handling shorts described before make it less useful than necess. .