topic Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021 in Civil 3D Forum

Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 15:23:13 GMT

I work as a surveyor and our firm has hundreds of survey files from 2009 and earlier. We used to have two machines that could run Autocad 2009 and a couple old surveyors who could bring the points forward so we can use them in Civil 3D. One of those machines just died. The clock is ticking on the other.

I understand how to convert the LDD points to cogo points and check for datum/translation issues.

The question is; How do we handle all that old data that will essentially be useless for survey updates if we can't first open the file in 2009 CAD? If we open the old drawings directly in Civil 3D there are dozens of issues and it would take hours to make sure you were working with good data. It would almost be faster to just start the survey from scratch.

If we can't use the export features in 2009 I don't know how to bring the points and line work forward in a useable way.

It also isn't practical to just have someone bring every single old drawing forward on the off chance that we will need it. That would be hundreds of hours of work. When a call comes in for an update, we need to be able to open the old drawing, exports the points, then drop them into Civil3d and roll from there.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

tcorey — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 15:59:41 GMT

Are there Surfaces, Alignments, Profiles to bring forward, too? Use _AeccImportLDTData

You mentioned Survey data, is this stored in .fbk? You can import that into a Civil 3D Survey project.

As far as points, you stated it already. You can open the old drawing and then _AeccConvertLdtPoints.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 16:05:39 GMT

There potentially are surfaces to bring forward. It all depends on which old job we're updating. In many cases we have the old info from the gun work, but at htat point were basically recreating the whole thing. What we need is the line work, points, and paper space all brought forward.

The real question is still, what do I do with all this data once I can't open 2009 anymore?

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

tcorey — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 16:14:01 GMT

To get linework, points, and paperspace items, just open the drawing. Convert the LDD Points to Civil 3D COGO Points.

You mentioned the old info from "the gun work." That means you have angle and distances as measured with your survey equipment: Total station, or theodolite with EDM, or transit and chain. What is the format? The survey command language hasn't changed much from LDD to Civil 3D Survey, so you might be able to read those files.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 16:29:36 GMT

Tim,

Yes, I could bring it forward with the old survey raw data, but that is the recreating the wheel I'm trying to avoid. If I open the drawing directly from Civil 3d and run the point convert, many times it rotates the whole drawing (mostly due to the old data being twisted by un un-savy CAD technician.) In order to eliminate that issue, I need to open the file first in 2009, export the points correctly, then import that file in Civil 3d.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

AllenJessup — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 19:33:43 GMT

@akeyXHWHT wrote:

many times it rotates the whole drawing (mostly due to the old data being twisted by un un-savy CAD technician.)

Ok. I understand now. The Convert Land Desktop Points routine uses coordinates stored in the LDD Points. Not the screen coordinates. The LDD points should have been checked into the database then back into the drawing to update the stored coordinates.

I understand opening all the drawings to do this manually is unreasonable. It's possible you could develop a batch process in 2009 to process hundreds of drawing at once.

I'm going by memory. But it's possible that you could explode the LDD points to blocks and create cogo points from the blocks.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 20:02:19 GMT

Yes, this absolutely works and is basically how we are doing it now, using 2009. but it won't work if we use any version after 2009, which is no longer supported. So back to the real elephant in the room....what will we do after we no longer have copy of 2009 to use?

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

AllenJessup — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:29:13 GMT

I haven't been able to get an installation of Land Desktop 2009 running in a couple of years. I have a 3rd party that also converts Land points, SmartDraft. But I don't know if it uses the stored coordinates or the screen coordinates. Do you have a drawing that you know the stored coordinates don't match the screen? I'd like to test it out.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

AllenJessup — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:42:45 GMT

I just did a text of my own. I brought a few LDD Points into a new drawing and used the standard conversion. Then I undid that, rotated them and used the standard conversion again. They reverted to the original position. I started again and rotated the points. Then used the SmartDraft conversion tool. The points stayed at the rotated position. So the SmartDraft conversion uses the screen coordinates.

This isn't a help to you unless you want to purchase the 3rd party. The tool to convert is part of the Suite or the Survey module.

If the Land Points exploded to Blocks instead of Lines and MText. It would be much easier.

Another issue is if you have any of the old .PDB databases. Sometimes all the points weren't kept in the drawing and there is no way to extract them from the PDB format. If it's an MDB you can pull points from that.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:47:53 GMT

This is a representative example. We are headed back out to this job soon. If I open the job in 2021 it rotates the points clearly off the leach field and race track.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

Jeff_M — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 22:21:36 GMT

I opened your dwg in C3D 2021, observed the points where I would think they are supposed to be. Then used Convert Landdesktop points, changed the AllPoints group to use a point label style, all points appear to be exactly where they were when I started.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 23:03:14 GMT

I tried that yesterday and it twisted them. I’ll try again tomorrow when I get back to the office. Thanks so much for all your help today.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

rl_jackson — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 02:10:24 GMT

I opened your drawing and got similar results to what @Jeff_M got, and to add noticed that the drawing had a surface and profile and pipe network, all of which could be imported into C3D from the various files the were created using LDD. So not all is lost in the older files, but sometimes the about of use you'll get from them depends on the amount of change your making.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

AllenJessup — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 13:30:43 GMT

@Jeff_M

I didn't see any positional change either. That means that either the points were never moved and/or rotated. Or the points were checked into the database then back into the drawing.

Try the attached file. I see the issue in it.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 14:16:53 GMT

Ok. I found a drawing of the race track that twists during the conversion.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

AllenJessup — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 15:41:12 GMT

Yes. I see it in that drawing. I thought I had at one time seen a routine that would take the two lines and three pieces of text you get after exploding the AECC_Point into a cogo point. But I can't find it.

You can read a previous discussion about this HERE. I think rotating them back to the original position based on a known point and line, hopefully a traverse or monument line, will be the solution for now.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

AllenJessup — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 16:17:04 GMT

Do you have an MDB file for the Land Project? If you do you can try THIS method.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 16:52:39 GMT

This looks promising, for certain cases.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

akeyXHWHT — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 16:56:41 GMT

This link for the MDB method is broken.

Re: Saving 2009 Autocad information forward to Civil 3D 2021

AllenJessup — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 16:56:35 GMT

Yes. In a case where you have an MDB file and the points were checked back into the database but not back into the drawing.

I've been trying to extract the Maker Location coordinates from the Land Points. But I don't see any easy way to do it.