topic Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST in Civil 3D Forum

Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:38:14 GMT

Hi,

I'm trying to work out how to get our survey files from our (very old) total station into C3d 2017 without going through some very ancient software on a computer that's about to expire.

The total station downloads files as either .raw or .idex.
I've tried importing both of those using the survey link conversions but am having difficulty.
The .raw file doesn't work at all; the fbk file created is blank. I'm not too surprised because I know that the export of that was tweaked for our old software and I have no idea how to untweak it.

I'm having a little more success with the idex - but it's not there yet.

I changed the idex extension to gsi. There's no option to convert that to fbk but I can convert to fw5.

When I start the importing, it tells me that the point names for the stations must be numeric so as each comes up I'm changing SN1 into 1001, and SN2 into 1002. the measurement check shots to those (SN1m1 SN1m2 SN2m1 SN2m2 etc) I change into 10011, 10012, 10021,10022, etc.
A rw5 file is then successfully created .

I can then convert the rw5 to a fbk file, but when I attempt to import that it says that the backsight point number from occupied point 0 is 0 and asks what the point number should be.

Now, the occupied point (at the start of the survey) SHOULD be 1001 with 1002 being the backsight.

Clearly I need to edit the rw5 that's been created to put the right station numbers in the right places, but I can't work out what bit needs addin.

Can anyone assist please?

The start of the rw5 (with the first few shots)reads as follows:

JB,NMFR2913-10-8-16,DT08-24-2016,TM10:27:41
MO,AD0,UN1,SF1.000,EC0,EO0.00,AU0
BK,OP0,BP0,BS0.00000,BC0.0000
--Date: 10/08/2016
SS,OP0,FP1001,AZ0.00000,ZE0.00000,SD0.000,--
SS,OP0,FP1002,AZ93.03463,ZE90.00000,SD0.000,--
SS,OP0,FP10021,AZ93.03478,ZE91.26172,SD70.732,--SN
SS,OP0,FP10022,AZ93.03471,ZE91.26171,SD70.732,--SN
SS,OP0,FP10023,AZ93.03471,ZE91.26179,SD70.733,--SN
SS,OP0,FP10024,AZ93.03457,ZE91.26174,SD70.734,--SN
SS,OP0,FP10025,AZ93.03474,ZE91.26176,SD70.733,--SN
SS,OP0,FP100,AZ267.52199,ZE90.24200,SD19.252,--CF
SS,OP0,FP101,AZ265.19285,ZE90.14359,SD27.692,--CF
SS,OP0,FP102,AZ264.05235,ZE90.08140,SD40.195,--CF
SS,OP0,FP103,AZ263.23322,ZE90.04071,SD49.907,--CF
SS,OP0,FP104,AZ263.03297,ZE90.03470,SD59.953,--CF
SS,OP0,FP105,AZ263.04514,ZE90.02360,SD61.504,--CF

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:04:11 GMT

I'm getting deja vu and no wonder. I've just discovered that I asked this exact same question 8 years ago. The forums won't let me edit my post above here though. The advice then was to try stringer connect and edit the files it produced, but we were never able to get it to work. It's the same total station and it seems I tried the exact same things then too. Basically I think I need to know what to type into the rw5 files to tell c3d what the occupied station is and what point is the backsight

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:07:42 GMT

Still can't edit earlier posts. I found the files sent me back then and will see if they work better in c3d 2017 than they did in 2009. Fingers crossed

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:12:57 GMT

I thought I was on to something -

If I use the manual input function and input the first few points from the survey manually, maybe I could export it as a fbk file and see how it differs.

Unfortunately, I have measurements in 2 different angles and then a distance. When I tried setting the survey network to use angles, when I then went to input a new observation, the entire program froze and then crashed.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

rl_jackson — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:51:43 GMT

If you have an rw5 file you can convert that to an Autodesk FBK or TDS cr5 file then coordinate file. This is done using Survey Link which can be found on the home tab under Create Ground Data pull down.

I do see some minor issues in your rw5 file just from a quick glance, in that the initial station point is 0 and point 1001 & 1002 have no slope distance.

Assuming you were Occupying Point (OP) 1001 and Backsigth(BP) 1002 which also don't have NEZ values that should be at the beginning of the rw5 file for those points.

Personally I would convert to FBK for these edits, its a little easier and you won't be disturbing you existing rw5 information. (Note: FBK is just a ascii text file)

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:06:26 GMT

HI, thanks.

I'm not starting with an rw5. I'm starting with a raw file and an idex file and trying to convert one of those into an rw5 file which I can then convert to fbk.

Converting from raw produces an empty file. If I change the idex into a gsi and renumber the stations as it flags them as unusable names it produces the rw5 file which I posted the top lines of.

I converted to fbk but the best I managed was just lots of lines radiating from a central point and it was in the wrong place (had swapped the eastings and northings around.) (And I can't remember what I did to get it that far.) I think the tips of the lines represented the survey data but nothing was joined up.

I tried swapping the north and east around (by changing NE to EN at the start of those lines) but then I had an error about it point 1002 being invalid, but it pointed to a line which didn't mention 1002 at all.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

rl_jackson — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:12:20 GMT

raw and rw5 are the same thing one is just a newer extension but the same data file type.

Most likely if yo converted that file to fbk, you are correct in that you would get them about a center point. This is because 1001 & 1002 are not defined prior to the Station and Backsight points. If you have an NEZ for those two points or can create something thing that is reflective of them based on field notes you should be able to get the data into a drawing from the raw file.

If there's no issues upload the entire file - It shouldn't take much to produce something usable.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:30:21 GMT

Hi, thanks,.

Here's one of the raw files. - edit - The forum won't allow uploading raw. I'm going to try changing it to txt and you'll have to change it back. Fingers crossed that the ruse works.

While my boss is considering the possibility of getting newer survey equipment, based on the usual timescales, it won't be any time soon. Our usual software is on an old XP machine which is on its last legs. If I can't get surveys importing directly into cad in some usable form before that happens, we'll be up a gumtree with no paddle.
Last time I tried (in 2008) we were unable to solve the problem of getting it directly into C3d.

I know what the survey SHOULD look like because I have previously processed in the usual software and have the cad file.

Please note that it is British coordinates, ie eastings are first in the info for the stations. (The eastings begin with 5 and the northings begin with 2.)

Fingers crossed.

I have to say though, that they don't look like the same kind of file. The raw is all long codes when opened in notepad. The rw5 looks almost comprehensible.

I'm happy to do some editing on files if necessary (I already have to edit the fld files which the other thing uses because sometimes people forget to input codes, or to switch stations,) I just need to know what to edit and how.

Thanks again and regards

PJL

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

rl_jackson — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:28:09 GMT

Doesn't the data collector create a CSV or PNEZD file? Seams odd that it would not, considering I've worked at firms with just basic total stations and no data collectors short of the ON-BOARD versions which still produced both raw and csv.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:33:52 GMT

No. It outputs raw, idex, and dxf. The dxf is just points though with no info on joining them up.

The idex does contain a section which includes ENZ data for each point but also contains angles and distances. I tend to download idex and raw, because if something goes wrong with the raw I can often find enough info in the idex to edit the fld file and get the survey to process in liscad SEE.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:35:35 GMT

There MAY be a fourth download option, but the thing's out on site at the moment so I can't check.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

Pointdump — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:40:15 GMT

"The forum won't allow uploading raw."

You can post anything if you zippola.

Dave

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:42:24 GMT

Couldn't see zip in the list of files, but the list did go off the right hand side of the screen.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 16:39:21 GMT

Depressingly it's now stopped converting even the idx files in rw5.

It works on the one I made earlier, but not on any others and I have no idea why. I will come back to it fresh in the morning

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:50:26 GMT

As of this morning, the best I've been able to do is extract the PENZD info from the idex file, convert it to a comma delimited .txt file using access (I tried Excell first, but the txt file wouldn't import into C3d without losing the last 2 fields) and import it two different ways. I made a survey network with it, and I imported it as cogo points.

I now need to figure out how to persuade it to draw lines.
There IS something in the file that shows where lines should start and finish, but I don't know how to explain that to C3d.

The data has a field for description. If there is a code in there (eg CF for cut feature) that's where the surveyed line starts. If there's no code there, the point is a continuation from the previous point. The next time there's a code, that's a new line.

point,east,north,height,code
548,1972.09,1950.80,199.11,"CF"
549,1974.51,1951.81,199.02,
550,1975.97,1952.62,199.00,
551,1974.34,1952.10,199.02,
552,1972.36,1951.03,199.08,
553,1978.28,1954.02,199.09,"CF"
554,1979.79,1954.77,199.07,
555,1980.89,1955.67,199.11,
556,1978.21,1954.10,199.10,"CF"

I think this involves linework code sets but the info about those I've found so far is not at all clear or concise.
Am I on the right track?

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

Pointdump — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:07:20 GMT

You're killing me.

"While my boss is considering the possibility of getting newer survey equipment..."

You should tell him to also consider getting a newer employee. I've worked for some cheap bosses before, but I've always at least had a data collector I could get data from, even when I had to provide it myself. Your situation looks unsustainable.

As for the problem at hand, rather than spend hours trying to figure out how to use linework code sets with your gawdawful data, I would just put each different description (like "CF") in its own point group or layer. Makes drawing point-to-point easier.

Dave

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:19:39 GMT

Lolololololol Even this is easier than the way I LEARNED to survey.

I learned to survey using string strung across fields with tall weeds and spoil heaps, using 30m tapes, plane tables, and optic squares, using ranging poles for lines of sight, and guestimating the widths of hedges, so processing a little text is nothing.

If I can figure out what needs doing, the clever IT guys can write a script to automate the process.

I'm an archaeologist. We don't let a little difficulty making tech work get in the way of the job.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

albionpjl — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:39:53 GMT

I've now made some progress. I changed the extension on a RAW file to gsi, converted that into rw5 and then converted the rw5 into a FBK file.

It doesn't bring through the information about which station you're setup on or backsighting on, but I added that manually (and I'm not 100% certain which bit was what.) Howsumever, when I imported the FBK file I ended up with a survey network of points (the same as when I imported from the CSV files but actually less work to get at the data.)

I'm still back to needing to process linework but it's a step in the right direction.

I'm not sure why no linework came through, it did in one of my tries yesterday (but with N and E reversed.)

I checked the raw file and the other files and the conversion to raw is not recognising the code that starts the new line.
In the raw file the code *41....+0000000000000027 prefixes each new surveyed line. There seems no obvious way of getting that info into the rw5

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

AllenJessup — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:53:40 GMT

What brand of Total Station. There are some inexpensive apps that will run on a cell phone and act as a data collector (for android - I'd think iphone too). $20 for the app and whatever a cable would cost for connecting.

Not trying to beat on you. I started in Surveying with barely more. But at this point the equipment is costing money not saving it.

Another choice is ebay. I created a monster when I told my old boss he could get equipment on ebay!

You could also try contacting the manufacturer of the Total Station. They may have a fix or firmware update that would help.

Re: Converting and importing survey file from old TST

AllenJessup — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:13:26 GMT

@albionpjl wrote:

I can then convert the rw5 to a fbk file, but when I attempt to import that it says that the backsight point number from occupied point 0 is 0 and asks what the point number should be.

Now, the occupied point (at the start of the survey) SHOULD be 1001 with 1002 being the backsight.
Clearly I need to edit the rw5 that's been created to put the right station numbers in the right places, but I can't work out what bit needs addin.

I think we've gone a little bit astray. Look at THIS thread and the example file in post #12. See if that gives you the information you need to edit your file.

Also HERE