topic Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working in Civil 3D Forum

SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

jmartt — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 16:11:40 GMT

Ever feel like you're just digging a hole deeper?

I've got SID aerials that are fantastic. I use MAPIINSERT and bring them into my state plane projection dwt all the time. And I can adjust the transparency of them, which is sometimes pretty important.

There's a new projection in my area from the DOT. I've got dwt's that are set to that projection, but the SIDs are still state plane.

MAPIINSERT does not seem to let me edit the coordinate system and, using that command, the images come in somewhere in the Beauford Sea.

I have 2019 Raster Tools (after I pointed my Support path to the folder) and there's a button there for IINSERT. That allows me to edit the coordinates. (Which I don't think I could do in 2017.) But when I attempt to use this, C3D freezes for at least as long as it takes to get a cup of coffee, which is my metric for "broke". (The SID images appear in about a second using MAPIINSERT.)

I can Connect to Data (not sure actual command name) using the Task Pane MAPWSPACE...Actually, the process that Allen describes here: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/insert-mr-sid-images/m-p/5732344#M279298.

But, while I can resample the SID by zooming to the area I want and right-clicking in the Task Pane and pick Resample Raster, I see no option for adjusting the image's transparency.

I can put the image on a layer and set the layer's transparency. This actually works, but although I have the Transparency set to Show in model space, the image does not appear to be a % transparent until I plot. I do a lot of screenshots, so this isn't the best scenario.

This dilemma is somewhat due, by the way, to that app Halo Text not having 2019 support. That's a great app. I wouldn't need image transparency so much if that worked.

So, is there any solution to this? I want a wysiwyg model space with a % transparent SID image georeferenced to a different projection than native to the image. I'd also be interested in getting the actual image into C3D and not the data connection version of the image. I think, if IINSERT worked, I'd be okay. But it don't.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

ChicagoLooper — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 06:03:45 GMT

Yes, your State DOT, or any DOT, can provide users with a template to insure compliance with drafting standards, but the template itself doesn't have a coordinate system built into it, you are still responsible to assign one.

MrSID imagery has UTM projection, not State Plane. The key is to assign the correct State Plane Coordinate System to your drawing, then bring in SID imagery using either MAPIINSERT or an FDO connection. AutoCAD does, and will, perform the necessary transformation to harmonize the imagery's projection with your drawing's projection. They do not have to be the same.

Yes, using MAPIINSERT allows you to apply transparency to the layer that holds the SID imagery whereas an FDO connection does not. (Actually, the FDO will allow you to make a single color within the image transparent, not the entire image itself, e.g. black can be set transparent while keeping all other colors of the image as-is.)

To bring in an image successfully using MAPIINSERT, first assign your State Plane. You can use MAPCSASSIGN and enter your State in the search box. From the results, choose the appropriate zone and 'assign' it to your drawing. (You can also do this through Tool Space>Settings Tab>right click dwg name>Edit drawing settings.)

Invoke MAPIINSERT command. Put a check in the 'Modify Correlation' box, navigate to your image, click OPEN.

1-MAPIINSERT.

The Image Correlation dialog has two tabs: Source and Insertion. Memorize or write down the x and y values from the Source tab and the x and y values from the Insertion tab. Both x's must be the same and both y's must be the same too. If they are not, go to Source tab and change the units from the dropdown in Units for Insertion Point and Density section. After you change it, review the x/y's to see if they match. Hint: If it's feet change to inches or vice versa. If it's meters change to millimeters or vice versa.) Keep the default values for rotation, scale and everything else. When they match, you will harmonize the GeoRef image with modelspace. Click OK. Turn on Bing Map to verify.

2-Source tab and Units dropdown.3-Insertion tab.

Reasons why MAPIINSERT doesn't work:

There is no 'harmony' between the insertion points, Source tab vs. Insertion tab in the image correlation dialog.
You have assigned the wrong CS to modelspace (or haven't assigned a CS altogether).
The image is not georeferenced or does not have an associated World File.
Your UCS is not set to World.
The program doesn't recognize the image's georeference (doesn't have that CS in the library).
Your INSUNITS needs to be changed.
Something besides 1 through 6 mentioned above.

Good luck.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

jmartt — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 17:50:56 GMT

You may be confused and are certainly presumptive. I have a template that I created with a coordinate projection that I received from DOT. The dwt is mine. The projection is of DOT's invention. Whose drafting standards are being complied with and what my responsibilities are are not of issue.

...And if one does receive a template from my DOT, they do have the coordinate system built into it. But again not of issue.

MrSID imagery has UTM projection, not State Plane.

I'm not very knowledgeable on this matter, but I have templates that are assigned state plane projections and the SIDs come into these drawings fine.

...then bring in SID imagery using either MAPIINSERT or an FDO connection. AutoCAD does, and will, perform the necessary transformation to harmonize the imagery's projection with your drawing's projection.

As I stated, I can bring the SID images in using both MAPIINSERT and the FDO Connection. However, I am not finding that MAPIINSERT transforms the SID images to the new coordinate system. FDO does; no problem.

Yes, using MAPIINSERT allows you to apply transparency to the layer that holds the SID imagery whereas an FDO connection does not.

Right. That's what I said. Except you can apply transparency to the layer containing the FDO image. You just can't see the transparent nature of that image on the screen. It plots with the transparency...this is all in my original post.

Your explanation of how MAPIINSERT works in the next several paragraphs including exhibits is excellent information. I'd perhaps benefit from a similar explanation, or even confirmation, of the functionality of IINSERT which, unlike MAPIINSERT, is not a command I'm familiar with and am already using successfully.

You've listed reasons why MAPIINSERT isn't working. It is working, actually. It just places the SID images in the Beauford Sea. This functionality seems to be what is described on the first website I found when Googling the matter:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-map-3d/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/MAPIINSERT-transforms-and-scales-images-incorrectly-when-the-drawing-has-a-different-CS-assigned.html

But I'll address your seven reasons anyhow:

Possible Problem 1: The Source tab and Insertion tab have the all the same info when I use MAPIINSERT to insert the SID images. It has crossed my mind that maybe I should try and find values to place in the Insertion tab coordinates so to transform the image correctly, but I haven't tried. Your talk of harmony and whatnot between the two tabs seems to suggest that this would be a dead end anyhow.

Possible Problem 2: I have the DOT projection assigned and recognized. The projection has worked well with Bing imagery and several projects' coordinates. It is the "wrong" projection for the SID images, since they're apparently native or whatever to state plane, but it's a real projection.

Possible Problem 3: The folder with the SIDs has SDWs as well. The SIDs have been transformed successfully using the FDO Connection. I'm pretty sure they're georeferenced. To state plane.

Possible Problem 4: As I stated, I'm using my template. It darn well better have a World UCS.

Possible Problem 5: See #2.

Possible Problem 6: My INSUNITS is 0 and always has been. If that's wrong, I've been wrong a long time.

Possible Problem 7: I'm going to add a # 7 to every list of problems I ever write in the future.

Update to Original Post:

I tried IINSERT again, taking much longer to get a cup of coffee. I came back, erased several sentences from the text above, and checked the progress. C3D was still chugging away at "Applying Transparency..." with no green on the time bar. I think it's broke.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

ChicagoLooper — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 20:08:42 GMT

If you have assigned the appropriate State Plane Coordinate System to your drawing, then that's good and fine.

If you are using the DOT's template then, for various reasons, you may run into issues particularly when using the MAPIINSERT command to place georeferenced images formatted to UTMs.

Open the drawing using the DOT's template, enter UNITS, then change from FEET to UNITLESS. Run the MAPIINSERT procedure again.

Insertion Scale=>Unitless

If this works, you may, or may not, consider changing the DOT's template to Unitless to avoid this from happening when using mapiinsert on MrSID imagery.

Note:

You may also test MAPIINSERT on your MrSID image using the OOTB Civil 3D Nat'l Cad Standards template:

_AutoCAD Civil 3D (Imperial) NCS.dwt

When using that template, you'll see the default setting for Insertion Scale = UNITLESS.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

jmartt — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 20:58:16 GMT

Again, I am using my template. I am using DOT's invented projection. I am not using DOT's template.

I have not assigned an appropriate state plane projection to the template I am using. I have assigned the appropriate projection: The one DOT invented. (I think it's a Lambert Conformed Conical projection, but that I don't think is of issue re: my ability to FDO Connect the data in and confirm with Bing imagery and project coordinates.)

Again, I'm not an expert on this, but whether UTM has anything to do with this or not, the SIDs come into drawings with assigned state plane coordinates just fine.

My template that I'm using has UNITLESS for the Insertion Scale.

You may, or may not, gain insight of this issue by clicking the link I provided in my post earlier today. Or by carefully reading any of that post or the original posting, as it does seem like I'm repeating myself.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

ChicagoLooper — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 20:51:37 GMT

What is the state plane you are using? Upload the image that's giving you issues.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

jmartt — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 20:59:48 GMT

I am not using a state plane projection. I'm also moving on. I shall not upload the image. Thanks.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

jmartt — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 18:23:37 GMT

Solution/work-around was found: I MAPIINSERT'ed the SID aerial into a drawing with my state plane projection assigned. Then saved that drawing. Then I opened a drawing with the new DOT projection assigned and followed the steps here to convert the SID image into the new coordinate system.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-civil-3d/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/An-existing-drawing-with-a-defined-coordinate-system-needs-to-be-converted-into-another-coodinate-system.html?_ga=2.83144021.2104717451.1533484498-219882248.1512672937

Seems to work fine. I wish I knew why IINSERT doesn't work. There seems to have been some grumbling a few years ago: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-raster-design-forum/certain-sid-files-load-very-slow-in-2015/m-p/6031278

I downloaded GeoViewer and checked: I have Gen3 SIDS, not GEN4.

But I can do what I want to do now. Hope this helps someone.

Re: SID Transparency - IINSERT Not Working

ChicagoLooper — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 20:38:47 GMT

Of course you, but only if you know (or disclose to others what the two coordinate systems are, e.g. UTM for the SID and the DOT's coordinate system assigned to your drawing). Without knowing both (or if they are kept secret), you can't do the insertion.

For example, here's a USGS Quadrangele 7.5 minute series for Anchorage, AK referenced to NAD83, geographic lat/long, with units in arc degrees (no not meters, not feet, but degrees). The EPSG is 4269 and the metadata is shown below.

Metadata: USGS 7.5 Series Quad, Anchorage, 2016.

Using MAPIINSERT when modelspace has AK83-4F, the image inserts correctly provided both x's match and both y's match, or matching reds and blues. Notice the units shown in the dropdown of source tab = Feet.

USGS Anchorage Quad with bing in background. Both x's match and both y's match. Insertion is accurate.

If the exact same image were inserted with the units set to meters, you'd get this. The reds don't match. The blues don't either. Notice the units shown on the source tab, it's meters. Previous example it was feet.

Source tab units are set to 'meters. If reds don't match and blues don't match then bad insertion and image is too far north.'Comparison between GOOD and BAD insertion.

Same image inserted twice. Bad has incorrect units and ends up too far north. Beaufort Sea? The Bing map in background is limited to the assign coordinate system or AK83-4F.

How does MAPIINSERT insert an image that has Geographic lat/longs and units in degrees into a drawing set to State Plane in units=US survey feet? Answer: Transformation of the two coordinate systems. As long as the program has both systems in the CS library, it will do the math, and there's a lot of math, and perform a transformation. Query? Sure you can perform one, but in the above case, no query was performed.