topic Site Piping in Civil 3D Forum

Site Piping

ChristopherHinkley — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 20:07:09 GMT

To all,

Is there a preference in program (Civil 3D, Plant 3D, etc) when it comes to designing site piping for Wastewater Treatment Plants and Water Treatment Plants? I have been using Civil 3D to model all my site piping.

Typical Workflow:

Generate a polyline from point A to point B in plan view
Create a feature line from polyline. I need to do this because we need a constant slope (with bends) from point A to point B.
Create Pressure Network/Pipe Network.

Downfall is gravity networks do not have bends! I will either put in a null structure or add a curve pipe section. Also, the pressure network is very limited on pipe sizes, variety. I try and edit the pressure network in a 3D view, much like Plant 3D, however, Civil 3D does not like working in the 3D view.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

Chris Hinkley

Re: Site Piping

rl_jackson — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 21:46:48 GMT

Have you looked a pressure pipe networks. The have there own drawbacks but they also have 90° bends, curved pipes, tees etc.

Re: Site Piping

ChristopherHinkley — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 11:25:33 GMT

Thanks for your response!

I do use pressure networks, however when editing in an isometric view for site piping its very slow and cumbersome. Editing piping in Plant 3D and MEP is smooth and less glitchy.

The question was geared more towards what programs others are using for site piping or if there is a more effective workflow.

Chris H

Re: Site Piping

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 12:02:33 GMT

I would suggest trying out @redtransitconsultants RTCL Pipe network Tools.

Steve's tools are incredible and have revolutionized how we manage pipe networks. Even with his tools using a gravity pipe network to model pressure pipe systems has its limitation, but his tools make it manageable. We use null structure with pipe bend blocks loaded in the style for our water networks.

I still haven't mastered the pressure networks so we're still using gravity networks to model all pipe networks (storm, gravity sewer, water, sewer forcemain).

Re: Site Piping

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 12:14:00 GMT

Pressure pipe networks are a mess. They've said their improving it in 2020 but don't hold your breath. We've heard it since 2015.

Use gravity pipe networks for everything, thats what most people do.

Create a profile view of your pipes once you've laid 'em out in plan view and edit your slopes from there.

We have a bunch of 3rd-party addins to improve the workflow because 'vanilla' C3D lacks any basic features for pipe slope modelling in profile view (hold end/start and specify grade, even out arts between 2 points, etc...).

Re: Site Piping

ChristopherHinkley — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 18:12:31 GMT

@Anonymous @Anonymous ,

Thanks for the input, greatly appreciated.

I met Steve Hill at AU last year and have some conversations about pipe networks. I am going to take a look at his tool set and see if I can benefit from it.

Yes, it sounds like there is a big push for pipe networks and pressure networks on the upcoming release of 2020. I am cautiously optimistic there will be improvements.

Chris H

Re: Site Piping

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:13:35 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Pressure pipe networks are a mess.

I agree @Anonymous. Really not fit for purpose. And if you do have a bend on a pipe, and then change the gradient of the pipe, the bends vertical orientation does not update. You have to actually redraw the parts. Or at least 2017 was like that. Not tried it in 2019. I unfortunately model a lot of pipelines (usually between 10 and 50km) and was hoping that the pressure network would be of value. I was disappointed.

For long pipelines with hundreds of IP's and VIP's, even the gravity pipe networks caused me problems, with so many parts in the drawing everything started to slow down considerably as the design progressed.

These days I usually use the default alignment/profile method that you would use for roads except I run a corridor down it that simulates my pipe in plan and profile. I can then control the whole thing from a single profile and just update the corridor. Not ideal, but it does the job and speeds up the design process.

If I need to produce any cross-sections or details, I just model a pipe at that location from my corridor levels. Once the design is complete, if needed, I'll import a 3D featureline of pipe centre from the corridor into another drawing and run a pipe network down it, adding blocks where necessary at structures representing bends etc. If the actual pipe network is not needed, I don't bother.

Regards,

Peter

Re: Site Piping

ChristopherHinkley — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:20:02 GMT

@Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Anonymous , @rl_jackson ,

I thank you all for your input, its greatly appreciated.

I am glad I am not the only one with this issue. It looks like there are many different ways to accomplish the task, all of which take multiple steps. Not the ideal solutions for any of us.

Have any of you considered using Plant 3D for your wastewater site piping?

Thanks for your time.

Chris H

Re: Site Piping

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 20:40:40 GMT

I have not. Primarily because a majority of our piping is gravity. When we do forcemains and water mains we start with featurelines with correct or reasonably close elevations, create pipe network from feature lines. Then we use @redtransitconsultants pipe network tools to manage the rest.

I might give it a try now that we're on AEC Collections just to see how it works...