topic Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc. in Civil 3D Forum

Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:32:18 GMT

C3D 2019, 2019 & 2020

I work at the City. We are entering our 2nd year of using C3D, having switched from Microstation/Inroads. There are at least five different departments working and collaborating on projects. Streets, sewers, water, traffic and parks might all be working on the same project simultaneously using data and x references, but each with their own set of drawings.

In an effort to maintain standards across departments I am wondering how reference templates are working for others. I'm finding that each one of these departments is heading off in different directions as we use the software more and more. I want to maintain standards while allowing flexibility at the departments. That is, everyone uses the same layer standards, the same generic, or overall, styles, but sewers can create their own pipe network styles suitable to sewer sheets, water can do what they want with pressure networks, etc.

We are using different plot style tables, which is key - as long as we maintain the same layer standards, including name and colors (ctb plotting). But, we are running into issues on almost every project as people invent stuff as they go and our plot style tables can't account for it.

I heard from our reseller that there were issues with reference templates when introduced. Is this still the case? Does it reference in only styles, or layers too? I suppose any layer referenced in a style will come with the style, but does the layer info (color, linetype, etc.) come with it? Or do we need to enforce layer standards separately?

thoughts and ideas welcome.

Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

SMorykin — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 15:46:24 GMT

@Anonymous - Reference templates are a great tool/resource. It will bring in all layers (everything even linetypes, lineweights, etc.), styles, property sets, drawing settings - the whole nine yards from your template. It is a double edged sword though - or can be in certain situations.

You have a drawing that you want to be to standards, maybe some things are but most are not. You apply the reference template and viola everything is 'reset' to your template default. If you need to change a template mid-project - much easier to apply and ensure all drawing files have the same 'new' settings. The other side of that is - you have a group that uses template as a starting point and then makes modifications to their styles and that isn't in the template. If they use the same name of the style - and then applies the template - it overwrites their changes. All the check boxes are cumbersome.

In our situation, we use the reference template as a way to house every part of our 'standards' regardless if 1 group uses it or not. So if a team needs a specific style for their local jurisdiction that they use on every project - we add it to the template. This allows us to manage one template for multiple functions - and if that group doesn't need it - then don't check the box to bring it into your drawing.

We definitely needed to train our users on best practices for using reference templates - but worth it's weight in gold if you are pushing standards.

Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:20:08 GMT

@SMorykinthank you for the input, I appreciate your time.

I'm thinking like you are, i think : ) in that is is a way to share styles and standardize at the same time. training has to be part of it - generally speaking if a style is to be edited it should be done in the template with new styles created and uniquely named, if needed.

I *think* it should work if a team starts a dwg with their own template that has styles specific to their discipline, i.e. what they need to design, quantify and plot sheets with. but the master template there to ensure layer standards are being followed and the universal styles are available and consistent across departments and agencies.

there is always going to be the rogue user who creates and edits styles however they want, i think. i am trying to head off rogue departments!

thanks again!

Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

jae.kwon — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 19:23:24 GMT

Just wanted to second that reference templates work well. They're great if your standards are mature.

If your standards are a work in progress then you might get annoyed at the constant popups and having to save copies of existing styles before you can merge it back into your main template.

Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 20:06:52 GMT

@jae.kwonthank you for the input!

Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

BlackBox_ — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 20:26:51 GMT

Another pro to using Reference Template (TREF), is that Parts Lists are also synced.

Some TREF cons I've observed:

While Styles, etc are synced on target drawing open, there is no notification (balloon?) when the TREF is saved/updated while the target drawing is already open. One must manually invoke ATTACHREFERENCETEMPLATE Command to check the status in a modal dialog.

There is (still) no -ATTACHREFERENCETEMPLATE Command-line option to attach, arrange (order), update, etc.

TREFs do NOT work with Core Console, for batch processing drawings.

There is no ability to edit a Style and 'Export to TREF', overwriting it if it exists, or simply add it to the TREF if it doesn't.

TREFs do NOT support relative paths, despite the AutoCAD team making all those XREF enhancements to better support relative paths, which makes it impossible to implement a TREF hierarchy where Enterprise TREF (absolute path; located in a network C3D resource folder) and Project-specific TREF (relative path to the host drawing's location within a Project), so empty, dummy TREFs could be included in our Project folder templates when a new project is created. This would allow drawings to be copied to another sub-phase of that same Project, or saved into another Project entirely and still retain both the Enterprise & Project-specific TREFs.

Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

spear_kevin_pe — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:35:03 GMT

I'll third Stacy's comments. One additional note though. With different departments creating pipe networks, you will need separate templates. Meaning... in any given template, you can only set up the styles, command settings, etc. for one pipe network type. So for gravity systems, you might have a template for storm, sanitary and water (yes I know we have pressure networks).

You could also think of reference templates the way you think of XREFs of plan content. You could have a ref template for each department. Then have a master DWT that already has those ref templates attached. When you create a new DWG from that master DWT, nothing to attach because they will already be there!

The one caveat would be a ref template sort order for those different departments that create pipes. The water dept would have to have the water template above the other pipe templates. OR simply create different master DWTs for each dept with the sort order preset.

It sounds complicated, but you're still only managing one set of styles. They just might be in separate DWTs. You might have common styles in one DWT, storm styles in another, etc.

Hopefully, that's clear as mud. 🙂

Re: Reference Templates - Pros & Cons, Etc.

lynn_zhang — Wed, 15 Jan 2020 05:15:33 GMT

Thanks everyone for your insights!👍

@Anonymous Hope the response here helps answer your questions.