topic Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space in AutoCAD Forum

Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:57:15 GMT

I have been searching this topic on the forums for a couple hours and most of the results are somewhat dated. They also seem extremely complicated for what I feel should be a simple process.

How do I reference the number and title of a sheet in model space? We have instances where we refer to sheet numbers and titles in model space. Our sheet numbers and titles can change from time to time so I would like to be able to link the references in model space to the actual numbers and titles located in the title block on the sheets.

Our layout tabs are named with the sheet numbers so we use CTAB to display the sheet number in the title block. The sheet titles are a block attribute in the title block.

Obviously my attempts to display the numbers/titles in model space have been based around using fields but everything I've tried has failed miserably. Is there not a way to do this using fields? Is there a different solution? Any help is appreciated.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

JTBWorld — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:06:51 GMT

It can be done. Not sure what you did but if you post a sample DWG someone might take a look.

You can delete all but the relevant block and field.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

pendean — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:45:43 GMT

Do you actually use layouts? You mix and match "layout" and "model" a lot, I lost track.

If you use layouts, you need to get into using SSM (SheetSet Manager) fully (and correctly): SSM which has a very handy automatic sheet lists table feature you can use anywhere you want (model or papersace).

That's the built-in automation for what you seek: here is a tutorial on how you all can get into SSM https://blogs.autodesk.com/autocad/why-use-autocad-sheet-sets/

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 20:00:15 GMT

I misspoke before... the sheet title is not a block attribute, it's just MTEXT. We have a few different title blocks and I was referring to the wrong thing.

Anyway, I have attached an example drawing and its title block that is XREF'ed. So I'm looking to reference the title and sheet number from each sheet into the model space. I'm not sure which field to even place in model space so I didn't place one.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

JTBWorld — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 20:06:29 GMT

Use a block with attribute and add the field as default when using ATTDEF. Then insert the block, not xref it. Then you can reference the block attribute value from another field in model space.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 20:20:33 GMT

Yes, we use layouts for our sheets.

I don't think SSM is something we want to use. We XREF our title blocks into the layouts so putting fields in the title block that use the SSM titles/numbers doesn't work because the fields don't populate correctly. Plus all of our drawings are templated so adding fields that use SSM info would be useless because you have to create a sheet set before you can start pointing those fields to the right sheets. The only fields that would work in a template would be the "CurrentSheet" ones to my knowledge. Perhaps there's a revolutionary way to do all that stuff correctly while using SSM? But I few of us have screwed around with it in the past and it seems to hinder our workflow more than help.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

JTBWorld — Wed, 30 Sep 2020 20:47:39 GMT

You need to change from using xreffed title block to inserted title block.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

pendean — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 12:59:44 GMT

So your choices are one of the following, none are easy except for the last one:
1) Use SSM as you've outlined and explained with the dozens of online tutorials starting with the one I linked to earlier.
2) Stop using XREF titleblocks, and stop using MTEXT and change to attributes as noted by others.
3) Change nothing and continue on as you've always done.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

pkolarik — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 13:10:54 GMT

@BL_Apex wrote:
Yes, we use layouts for our sheets.

I don't think SSM is something we want to use. We XREF our title blocks into the layouts so putting fields in the title block that use the SSM titles/numbers doesn't work because the fields don't populate correctly. Plus all of our drawings are templated so adding fields that use SSM info would be useless because you have to create a sheet set before you can start pointing those fields to the right sheets. The only fields that would work in a template would be the "CurrentSheet" ones to my knowledge. Perhaps there's a revolutionary way to do all that stuff correctly while using SSM? But I few of us have screwed around with it in the past and it seems to hinder our workflow more than help.

We use Sheet Sets and have since shortly after they were introduced. All our sheets come from a template that has a titleblock inserted (we went away from xref'ing titleblocks with the advent of Sheet Sets) into it. That titleblock is 100% fields in every attribute contained within it (around 15 attributes). Our plan/detail/section cut numbers are all linked back to the sheet numbers via the Sheet Set Manager, as well as text we place in model space referencing other sheet numbers is also linked via SSM.

If any sheet number throughout the set changes (and they change often), every reference to them also changes. It's saved countless hours and dollars on projects over the years we've used it.

Somewhere out there is probably still a document called "Sheets Happen", by Lynn Allen I believe. That was the one I used back in the day to get a handle on how Sheet Sets work.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 13:41:09 GMT

It appears as though I assess our title block insertion method and revisit the idea of using SSM.

I'll start testing out some of these ideas to see what works best. I guess what it really comes down to is how much do we want to change the framework of our drawings. I'll have to be able to prove that the new method not only solves this particular issue but that it can also be as efficient as what we're currently doing (if not more). Otherwise the other technicians won't go for it.

Not sure if this post will be closed or whatever, but at some point I will revisit with an update on what we decide to do and how we accomplished it.

Thanks guys.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

JTBWorld — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 13:45:16 GMT

If you go with SSM you might have good help of some of our apps like JTB SSMPropEditor.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 21:01:42 GMT

I'm testing out a title block template that gets inserted into the sheet as a block (not XREF'ed) and I have all the fields populating from the SSM. One thing I can't figure out at the moment... We usually add our clients logo to the title block next to ours. So I'd like to have some sort of placeholder in the title block so when I pull a template drawing (with title block inserted) into the Sheet Set, the client logo updates along with all the fields in the title block.

Thoughts?

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

pkolarik — Fri, 02 Oct 2020 13:04:58 GMT

@BL_Apex wrote:
I'm testing out a title block template that gets inserted into the sheet as a block (not XREF'ed) and I have all the fields populating from the SSM. One thing I can't figure out at the moment... We usually add our clients logo to the title block next to ours. So I'd like to have some sort of placeholder in the title block so when I pull a template drawing (with title block inserted) into the Sheet Set, the client logo updates along with all the fields in the title block.

Thoughts?

In the past I made a custom (not our company standard) titleblock for a series of clients that used a dynamic block for the logo. Inside the dynamic block was all the different logos needed for that series and the logo was placed into the template file in the correct position but separate from the titleblock's geometry (i.e. - not part of the titleblock's block definition).

I always wondered if I could have made the entire titleblock a dynamic block (attributes/fields, etc), but at the time didn't have time to test how fields, attributes, and SSM would work through a dynamic block.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Fri, 02 Oct 2020 13:42:43 GMT

I had thought about tossing all the logos into the title block and using visibility states for them. But for every recurring client we have, we have twice as many that are either new or that we won't work for again for 10 years. Municipalities... So I feel like we would be fiddling with the title block often. If there was a way to "inject" a project specific logo into a reserved area on the title block, that would be awesome. This is one of the many reasons why we've stuck to XREF title blocks over the years. But I really am enthusiastic about trying this alternative method you folks have presented me with. Just need to work out the kinks.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

JTBWorld — Sat, 03 Oct 2020 14:53:29 GMT

One way would be to xref in the logo and place it with relative path with a generic name like clientlogo and then you just need to edit the logo xref (DWG or image) for each client. The sheet template can contain both the title block and the logo.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 19:03:39 GMT

Actually what I'm working on at the moment is I've put a placeholder block inside the title block and I'm writing a LISP that will ATTACH the image, WBLOCK it with the same name as the placeholder block, and then INSERT the new block definition and replace the placeholder. It's going okay, but I can't figure out what to do about this window that pops up at the end of the WBLOCK:

I think I actually found a few lines in a LISP on your website that handles this issue, but I couldn't figure out how to apply it to my particular situation.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

JTBWorld — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 19:15:51 GMT

Add the below after the wblock code.

(if (equal 1 (logand 1 (getvar "cmdactive")))
; Include AutoCAD Map information in the export?
; If you want to include Map information in the new files change "_N" to "_Y" below
(command "_N")
)

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 19:24:39 GMT

Got it. This was the same snippet I found on your website and I couldn't get it to work. But I just realized I forgot to set CMDDIA = 0

Thank you!

And I've got a 2nd dialog predicament happening at the same spot if you're interested:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/visual-lisp-autolisp-and-general/suppress-quot-erasing-image-quot-dialog/td-p/9785034

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

JTBWorld — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 19:31:17 GMT

If this is a custom MAP message I don't think there is a way around it other than launching an external app that checks for the dialog box and closes it.

Re: Reference Sheet Numbers and Titles in Model Space

BL_Apex — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 19:40:06 GMT

I believe it's an AutoCAD standard dialog.

Are you able to reproduce it by attaching a .jpg or other image file using ATTACH and then deleting the image?