topic Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S in AutoCAD Forum

Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making Softw

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 19:36:00 GMT

Hello There,

We have a self-taught Auto-cad guy here at work who creates all of our dies. Being self taught he doesn't have all the knowledge he should and does the bare minimum to get the job done. He is almost 65 yrs old and retiring soon so sending him back to school is not an option, we will be looking for a replacement in the next few years. However, right now we have a lot of issues sending dies to the die-makers.

Although he works for me and I'm asking this question, I'm a graphic designer and work with Adobe programs, so have minimal experience with CAD.

When he sends his .dwg or .dxf files to our die-makers, they say they have to fix them and it takes hours to do so. We make puzzles so our dies can be very complex. The die-makers use software called Cimex.

Is there a way to export/ convert the Autocad files he is making so they are usable in Cimex and don't require much "fixing"? The "fixing" I'm assuming has to do with the lines. Similarly, when he creates files, sends them to me, and I open in Illustrator, it gets converted differently then it looks to him. Example: If he adds text, it opens in Illustrator as individual letters. Some lines are single lines but most are connected in weird ways so I have to double click a lot to isolate certain lines. Or does he just not know the best way to design them in order for them to be compatible with Cimex or other softwares.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

john.vellek — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:50:41 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

I see that you are visiting as a new member to the AutoCAD forum. Welcome to the Autodesk Community!

While I research the other software, can you attach a couple of the models he has created so I can take a look? I would like to see how broken or messy the file really is. Also something that is representative of the average complexity would also be good. You can attach to a post, shore via some Cloud location or let me know if I need to give you a private upload location.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 11:32:19 GMT

Here is one of our 1000pc puzzle dies that he created. I am told to fix something of this complexity takes 8-10 hours.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

JDMather — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:41:01 GMT

Well, I hesitate to respond looking at a pdf rather than a dwg - but if the pdf accurately represents the dwg - that is an avoidable disaster.

I see untrimmed overrunning geometry everywhere and gaps.

I have a personal preference that all geometries would be tangent too (see purple rectangle).

This is pretty basic AutoCAD 101 stuff. It takes far less time to do it right the first time than to fix.

I am 60 yrs old. I think this could be remedied with an hour consultation with a pro.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:45:11 GMT

Here is the DWG

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

JDMather — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:50:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

..... The die-makers use software called Cimex.

Do you have link to website for this software?

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

JDMather — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:53:21 GMT

I am not familiar with puzzle making - but I notice that there is text description "WITH BLEED".

Are these untrimmed lines that I pointed out the "BLEED", that is, something intentional?

Or is bleed something else?

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

JDMather — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:01:41 GMT

I notice that viewres is set to 100 - first thing I would do is set it to 2000 or greater.

The 100 setting is a leftover from the last century when we could go get a cup of coffee while waiting for a zoom to regenerate the screen.

Edit: Well on further examination I guess this doesn't matter as all is segmented lines. I thought there were arcs in the geometry.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:57:22 GMT

The with bleed refers to the size the image should be. The puzzle will be cut on the blue line, bleed for the image extends to the red.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:59:21 GMT

http://www.cimexcorp.com

http://www.cimexcorp.com/software_products.htm

I guess most die-makers use this software.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:26:17 GMT

We also have an employee that works in our machine shop that uses Solidworks.

Can you tell me the difference between AutoCAD and Solidworks? In terms of what you see we do, what would be better to use to design puzzle dies?

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:28:28 GMT

We also have an employee that works in our machine shop that uses Solidworks.

Can you tell me the difference between AutoCAD and Solidworks? In terms of what you see we do, what would be better to use to design puzzle dies?

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

john.vellek — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 14:14:42 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

Thanks for the file. I will take a look at it but from the previous image you included and @JDMather excellent observations, I believe that your CAD person just needs a little guidance. I assume that once you have a certain amount of shapes created that they can be reused as blocks in a drawing.

I found the Cimex site and it appears that their software is designed to accept AutoCAD files. If this remains all 2D I am guessing that this could perhaps even be created in AutoCAD LT which might save some money as AutoCAD is probably overkill. Solidworks or Autodesk Inventor or Fusion 360, in my opinion, would also be more than what it is required for this type of pattern.

Please select the Accept as Solution button if my post solves your issue or answers your question.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

JDMather — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 14:21:46 GMT

ekimball wrote:
Can you tell me the difference between AutoCAD and Solidworks? In terms of what you see we...

SolidWorks is a 3D modeling tool - what you have shown here is all 2D and SolidWorks would "choke" on this. Hard to explain without demonstration why as it might seem illogical, but for strictly 2D work AutoCAD is your best tool.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

john.vellek — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 14:59:03 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

I opened the file you provided and found that first I was missing some information as shown in this image. I have never seen this message before so I am not exactly sure what it is looking for but I suspect that the file was created with a localized version of software (not American English).

I also received a warning that the drawing required Recovery meaning there is some corruption in the data.

Next, as I mentioned, I believe that since there is likely repetition of the puzzle pieces, these pieces could be made into blocks in order to keep the drawing small, fast and easily modified.

Lastly, I am surprised that there are no arcs or circular objects in the file. All of the shapes are made from line segments!

Please see the image below, as it shows all the little lines (end points are highlighted with the blue squares) used to create a "curved" shape. I drew on top of the piece using circles and arcs (quickly and crudely) to show how I think this work of geometry should be created.

So, with this in mind, how many different puzzle piece shapes do you use in your designs? Is it worth drawing them cleanly and accurately and then incorporating them into a library for re-use?

Please select the Accept as Solution button if my post solves your issue or answers your question.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:32:15 GMT

How do you make geometries tangent in AutoCAD LT? Do you know what the command is?

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

john.vellek — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 19:08:44 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

AutoCAD uses a feature called Object Snaps (OSNAPS) to achieve precise geometry. One of these is the TAN(gent) snap which allow you to create geometry tangent to another curve. This, used with construction lines, would be helpful in creating clean and exact geometry in the puzzle patterns.

Please select the Accept as Solution button if my post solves your issue or answers your question.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

JDMather — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 20:04:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

How do you make geometries tangent in AutoCAD LT? Do you know what the command is?

I have never used AutoCAD LT, but in addition to using object snaps - there might be a Parameters tab which will have Geometric Constraints that force absolute tangency (can drag around and geometry will stay tangent). On something of this complexity though you would want to use Blocks and Layers to make management easier. There is a lot of overhead with using Parameters. If I were using Parameters for something this complex (never tried it) I suspect I would delete them on completion of each block to keep from bogging down AutoCAD.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 20:51:17 GMT

The output generated appears to be restricted to straight line segments (due to die cutting machine). This would make sense as to why the layout has an apparent disregard for tangents and curves throughout. The cleanup needed appears to be limited to the termination of polylines - they need to terminate AT another polyline without leaving a gap or extending beyond. You did not give information or criteria involving the required polyline thickness - the termination of polylines may need to be to through the other polyline not just up to it in order to achieve a good cut.

It might be best to terminate the ends polylines to a vertex on the another polyline- if that is allowed by the CIMEX software. That would insure coincident points.

Re: Creating Die Drawings in AutoCAD that are Compatible with Cimex Die Making S

john.vellek — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 22:56:52 GMT

Hi @Anonymous,

I am not sure that die cuts handle curves and arcs differently than CNC processes. I frequently see where line segments are utilized to simulate arcs and curves and can cause problems when they have too many vertices.

At any rate, I agree that the accuracy in creating geometry with either method will yield much better results. Garbage - in and garbage -out as they say.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread. I am hopeful that the OP will find value throughout the conversation.