topic Re: Objects Disappearing in AutoCAD Forum

Objects Disappearing

n_spr — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 10:38:43 GMT

We have 3 AutoCAD 2025 installs; I've not seen the issue myself, but both my other two users, doing more CAD work than myself, are repeatedly experiencing an issue with objects (blocks and 3d solids) disappearing between saves.

I.E. user saves and closes drawing. Comes back to drawing and reopens, hours/days later, and a large number of objects have simply disappeared from the drawing. No recovery prompt on open. Have tried manually recovering a drawing on which we have seen this issue, no change, objects still missing. We're creating furniture layouts and in this case it's the leg frames for benching. Issue seems to have started around moving to 2025.

Re: Objects Disappearing

paullimapa — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 12:23:36 GMT

If you still have 2024 installed are the objects still missing when opened up using that version?

Is 2025 configured like 2024 under options to always save as dwg format 2018?

Is ISAVEPERCENT set to 0?

Any difference if use Recover command to Open a dwg?

Re: Objects Disappearing

n_spr — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 12:31:13 GMT

Hi Paul,

We've not still got older versions installed; 2025 is still saving as 2018 .dwg.

We will change ISAVEPERCENT to 0 and see if this helps.

Recover is giving the same results as a usual open. Some drawings force us to recover, some don't, but whether this is done manually or by force results in the same objects missing.

Nathan

Re: Objects Disappearing

pendean — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 12:50:30 GMT

Where do you all store your files? Looks like some form of versioning (or worse, a badly implemented backup and restore system) is replacing all of your new files with old ones.

UNLESS where you store your files can't tell if PersonA and PersonB have the same file open, PersonA does all the work then goes home, PersonB saves and closes the older file they still have open and removes all the changes.

Time to hire an IT person if you don't have one yet: other than ensuring ISAVEPERCENT is set to 0 for everyone, you may have issues that moving to/from 2025 is not going to fix.

Re: Objects Disappearing

n_spr — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 13:21:03 GMT

We store on a shared drive hosted by our DC, running on a VM hosted in Hyper-V on our HPE server, on our LAN, running a RAID10 flash array.
Our backups use VEEAM via a dedicated separate device and our MSP's datacentre, and have done for some time, predating said issue.
We have no issues with any other software or users utilising said shared drive or others on the same array.

In the event a restore were required it's not going to be restoring logical drives or files without manual intervention; I'm unclear what lunatic would permit automatic restores from backup beyond physical disk failures in an array.

In any case, to be clear, it's not older versions of files overwriting newer. An attempt to open a file at the same time as someone else is going to trigger a warning the file is in use and prompt to open as read-only, not to mention our staff generally carrying out CAD work are sat side by side to the left of me and there's no scenario in which they'd be making changes to the same drawing simultaneously.

Besides, it's not reflective of the issue.
Take a cabinet; we'd have this saved separately as a block, and pull it into the layout drawing. What's happening here, in several cases, is the user completes work on said file, plots and saves. Client requests a revision, user opens file to make revision some time later, and, for example, panels within that cabinet block have disappeared. Individual 3D solids within the block have disappeared that in no case would be edited during drafting. In others, steel framework supporting benching is disappearing. Or worktops.
It's not a versioning issue where we're looking at older copies of drawings.

Re: Objects Disappearing

pendean — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:09:19 GMT

@n_spr wrote:
...Take a cabinet; we'd have this saved separately as a block, and pull it into the layout drawing. What's happening here, in several cases, is the user completes work on said file, plots and saves....
...Client requests a revision, user opens file to make revision some time later, and, for example, panels within that cabinet block have disappeared...
Individual 3D solids within the block have disappeared...
...steel framework supporting benching is disappearing...

Well, there is no reasonable workflow or "settings" where selective DWG content just disappears on it's own for no reason if you are opening the same exact file that was saved days earlier. None. Zip. Nada.

But BLOCKS being BLOCKS in AutoCAD, there is a chance a user is assuming a named block is always the current version when it may not be.

Or layers are frozen/off.

Or Shademode settings changed.

OR they are not opening the same exact file they worked on and saved earlier.

So... it is now on you three to set up testing and experiments to repeat the issues on observed and well monitored files (and file locations, and named block issues etc.) yourselves, in-house, to try and find the true culprit.

Do you need help setting this testing up?

You can also open a support case with Autodesk if you are on subscription to seek out Autodesk Support's help, perhaps they are more aware of "... the widget that was here yesterday is gone today..." reports from other 2025 users that may shed light on what might be going on:
https://www.autodesk.com/support/account/manage/use/support#:~:text=com/plans.-,Contact%20support,-Select%20a%20path

HTH

Re: Objects Disappearing

n_spr — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:57:26 GMT

OK - the cabinet block in this particular scenario is a wall cupboard which has been produced via copy paste, from a .dwg file we've used for a decade without editing that contains our library of wall cabinets.
The block has not been edited during the production of the layout drawing.
A plot has been produced without error, with the expected results.
The drawing has been saved and closed by the user who produced it.
No other user has modified the drawing, or indeed accessed that directory, until the same user reopens the drawing to a recovery prompt and finds 3D solids within those blocks, in addition to other 3D solids outside of blocks, have disappeared. These solids are on multiple different layers. No layers are hidden, frozen, or otherwise.

The drawings have been restored, after this fact, by loading from a .bak file, which includes all solids as expected.
The solids are disappearing, seemingly at random, from the unmodified, correct .DWG. This is of course not intended behaviour, or a reasonable workflow, or intended consequence of a setting. It is, however, happening.

The three of us have 50+ years cumulative experience with AutoCAD. This is not layers, shademode, etc.

The same behaviour has occurred randomly across multiple .dwg files regardless of the blocks being imported, the method of import, the user producing the drawing, the user opening the drawing, etc. Steel benching frames imported via drag & drop from windows explorer, that again we have used for over a decade unedited in some cases, exhibit the same behaviour. Worktops, simple boxes, exhibit the same behaviour, disappearing at random from the file.

I've got a support case open, but lets be frank, Autodesk aren't the only company for whom community support tends to find a "fix" or workaround to a bug quicker than vendor support.

Re: Objects Disappearing

pendean — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:35:44 GMT

@n_spr If you have a BAK that is current, then your DWG (only) is getting replaced.

Here is what you do to dig way deeper than you have so far (from what I can tell here anyway):

Have your colleagues do what they need to do in two files (one each): when they are done, you open each and confirm those edits still exist. Now use ETRANSMIT command inside each one to create a ZIP file.

Now email each ZIP file you yourself at home and at work.

In a few days/weeks/months, whatever, have your two colleagues open those edit files, and report if anything has vanished. Repeat daily until the issue appears as you've been stating here.

When it does... you have to ZIP files with the "good" files in it. Start COMPARE command and see if you can discover what is going on.

@n_spr wrote:
...The three of us have 50+ years cumulative experience with AutoCAD. This is not layers, shademode, etc.

Friend, I alone have 33+years in the program, daily, and been CAD Manager 32+years. PLUS almost anyone else replying to posts consistently around here are 10+years at the very least. So you are talking to true AutoCAD peers (all of us).

Re: Objects Disappearing

cadffm — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:23:52 GMT

Hi,

>>"but whether this is done manually or by force results in the same objects missing"
Because it already contains "corrupt data"

Dont ask me, ask Adesk. I can just see what you can as result of an Recover-open or Audit-yes procedur, not more. The only thing I klnow is, Adesk changed the internal audit procedure to more stricter.
This means that old Acis data is sometimes classified as corrupt and may be deleted by recovery or audit.

>>"We've not still got older versions installed;"
What was the previous used version? (which didn't had trouble with this), pre2018 or newer - which one?

>>"It's not a versioning issue where we're looking at older copies of drawings."
I think it is a versioning problem between older 3DSolids and a newer Acad-Version.
Not sure now, but the problem could be started with Version2018 (and 3DSolids from pre2018-Versions)

Regardless of the problem here, just based on my general experience:
I would only use important or very large amounts of 3D data (or even just 3D solids specifically)
from before 2018 with versions before 2018.

From product versions 2018 onwards I would only use newly created 3D solids.

(let's leave the discussion about theory and
practice aside, that's just how it is, but the problems with the old solid bodies are definitely and = practice)

As far as I know, AutoDESK has never commented on this, but you will find many threads with the same problem on the internet.

Re: Objects Disappearing

cadffm — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:56:50 GMT

If that is your problem (problems of 3dsolid versioning):

I think there is no real solution.

If possible and stated above, create "templates" like blocks new, use only new created content.

And if this is not an option (your choice), the only workaround is to turn off the internal 3dsolid recovermode,

what will not fix the data problem, but it supresses the recover process which deletes your 3dsolids

Re: Objects Disappearing

FelipeMolon — Thu, 20 Jun 2024 10:46:43 GMT

Hi!

Something similar happens to me sometimes. Some solids in some drawings get corrupted and disappear when zooming, panning, etc... Sometimes the solids can also disappear, and in some other they can appear in a different location when I change from wireframe to solid view and vice versa.

When it's not too late, and some part of the solid still appear, I can solve this by selecting them, explode the selection and undo it to make them solid again, so they stop behaving strangelly. Dont't ask me why it works, but I manage to recover some solids by this way.

Either way, when this happen, I select everything in the drawing, cut and paste in a new drawing to replace the old one. And my problems end there.

It seems to happen more frequently on drawings with a lot of solids and after many changes made on them. So pasting them in a new drawing seems to calm things down.

I got used to do it from time to time on any drawing I'm working on, after many changes were made, so I almost never have this issue anymore.

Hope it helps