topic Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions in AutoCAD Forum

Limits of Associative Dimensions

sepp6NPPB — Mon, 19 Aug 2024 20:09:16 GMT

I am wondering if there is a webpage that defines / discusses the limitations of dimension associations?

I am a seasoned (30+ years) user of autocad and while I have always found that when dimensions are associated, it is a 'nice to have' feature, it has never been something I have relied on.

Recent feature update videos have gotten me intrigued to figure out why sometimes my dimensions stay associated and sometimes not.

I understand the basics of when the geometry changes - deleted, or if the number of points on a polyline changes (Which I find very frustrating!) BUT in playing around just now, I can't even create a basic dimension that is associated from the start. (Or at least after I create it, the "!" is showing)

I thought maybe it has to do with the object not being on the same plane, or 3D object, or something do with being in a block.

What looks like it should work, isn't.
Or it isn't working consistently.

Searches have not returned much.

Using ACad 2024 on Windows 10.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

sepp6NPPB — Mon, 19 Aug 2024 20:08:41 GMT

More testing has revealed that it is consistently inconsistent....

I have a filleted 3D solid in a block, that also has 2D lines in it.
the 2D lines consistently associate.
Dimensions to the 3D corners are not consistent - but I can't tell if it depends on the Z location of the block or it's related to the fillet.

The other odd thing - that I have never noticed, is that a dimension to a 2D object seems to be associated to the Z level of the object - so if I change the Z position of the block, the dimension moves to the same Z height.
But dimensions to the 3D object stay on the same plane as they were drawn on.

Dimensions drawn to the edge of a 3D object seem to stay associated, (but stay on the same Z as drawn) BUT dimensions drawn by selecting each end do not even start associated.
There are other odd snapping issues, and dimensions jump after completing the command.

*Note this testing is done in Model space - we use a mix of model space and paper space dimensioning. I have not tested what happens in paper space yet.

I am using ACAD 2024.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

pendean — Mon, 19 Aug 2024 20:36:29 GMT

@sepp6NPPB Show your work; share that DWG file with those dimension over here so we can see (and touch) what you are discovering. TIA.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

cadffm — Mon, 19 Aug 2024 22:03:31 GMT

Hi,

it works great since more than two decades, but limited:

I am talking about objects in modelspace

and dimensions in..

in modelspace - - - -

for simple 2D object

except the documented objects.

"Special Situations and Limitations

Associative dimensions support most types of geometric objects that you would expect to dimension. They do not support objects such as

Hatches
Images
Underlays
Multiline objects
2D solids"

blocks as well, but I would exclude dynamic blocks, depending on the included features (and changes of parameter values), so you can't say Yes or No.

Perhaps a kind of thumb rule: More nesting, more scaling = more trouble.

3D objects, same like dynamic Blocks.

More complex = more trouble

Paperspace - - - -

Additional to my statement above

All is more instabil,

I think I tested: depending on Viewport scale factor - avoid wild floating scalefactors.

(This doesn't make much sense, but I could reproduce it in tests).

And X

There are also cases which I can't explain.

Simple Objects, low coordinates, integer vp scale factors ( or clean like 0.1 )

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

TomBeauford — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 04:42:20 GMT

I've always lived by the rule Annotate Last as it's the only thing in a drawing whose location doesn't have to be in an exact spot and until the rest of the drawing is complete you can't always know what scale your viewports will have to be or where the drawing objects will be located. Never have to worry about what happens when the geometry changes that way.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

dbroad — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 11:53:06 GMT

@TomBeauford :That's theoretically a great way to work. In fields where designs evolve and where annotation is required at many steps along the way, annotating last isn't really an option, especially when costs need to be controlled and constantly re-evaluated.

The main problems I've had with associative dimensioning is when editing polylines that have associative dimensions attached. I nearly always need to disassociate them before editing them to avoid lots of cleanup later.

For solids, I would use the viewbase features and dimension in paper space. For solid manipulation, it's important to use the 3d workspace and a 3d visibility state for accurate manipulation.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

sepp6NPPB — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:03:44 GMT

What do you mean by "3D workspace"?

I have been drawing in 3D for 30 years now and not sure what you are referring to?

I use the Orbit command and the viewcube to move the model around.
It's also typically difficult to modify 3D primitives in a 2D view.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

sepp6NPPB — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:05:42 GMT

I was hoping this was a simpler than that - too much overhead ATM to create a troubleshooting file.
I can't release the info from the drawing in question.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

tramber — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:16:48 GMT

A lot of users criticismes about dims associativity are due to a lack of attention. What osnap did you use, I ask ? And the user can't answer because he doesn't have any idea of how osnap work ! Sometimes they think that snapped on the object although they snaped another one. What the dim remembers 😉

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

pendean — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:32:05 GMT

@sepp6NPPB wrote:
...too much overhead ATM to create a troubleshooting file....

The same is true for all of us: we are working folks like you and help others around here when we can.

If you don't have the time now, table your discussion until you do then start it up again.

Best wishes.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

dbroad — Thu, 29 Aug 2024 15:35:14 GMT

See this link. The ribbon is designed to support workspaces. The "3d modeling" workspace with the acad3d.dwt template can help unless you've already set up your own 3d dwg templates.

https://help.autodesk.com/view/ACD/2024/ENU/?guid=GUID-51E1D144-1EC4-4B4B-B4FA-F8456D40A4AF

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

sepp6NPPB — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 02:20:30 GMT

I've had a moment to circle back to this.

What you are talking about doesn't change anything about the drawing environment, just the tools displayed, as far as I can tell.

I typically work with all tools showing. And I have 20 or so custom tool bars that display all the commands that are hidden away in submenus of submenus.... I don't have the patience to learn which ribbon tool bar has commands that I need all the time, or waste the time switching tabs to get to the commands I need when I need them.

Having the layers options on a tab, which is almost never active, but need to use almost all the time, is a waste of time - I prefer the old days, when there were floating toolbars, which I predominantly use.

It's funny (not funny), when I watch a newer user do things in the modern UI, and what takes them 3 or 4 clicks, I am doing in 1 or 2. I just smile and I am glad they can even find the command and do what needs to be done.
I have one colleague who was ecstatic to learn that I had ported the tool bars I created in the early 2000's to the modern UI.

I would also mention that when workspaces first started, I tried them, but I found that having things 'move around' or be hidden altogether, was extremely frustrating. Knowing I saw a command, but now I can't find it?
So I just show everything. and it doesn't change if I am drawing 2d or 3d. Muscle Memory is real.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

pendean — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 14:11:18 GMT

@sepp6NPPB wrote:
...I prefer the old days, when there were floating toolbars, which I predominantly use...

That never went away, have you not turned off the RIBBON then turned on all the toolbars and menus (and sidebar) yet? Do a quick websearch for HOW TO CREATE THE AUTOCAD CLASSIC WORKSPACE

@sepp6NPPB wrote:
...I would also mention that when workspaces first started, I tried them, but I found that having things 'move around' or be hidden altogether, was extremely frustrating. Knowing I saw a command, but now I can't find it?.

Did you by chance forget you can just customize everything to your exact needs in AutoCAD? CLASSIC WORKSPACE seems to be where you want to be, takes less that 2-minutes to set up and go back in time even in AUtoCAD2025.

So... does this mean your original issue is not longer one? Just curious since you went off on a tangent.

Re: Limits of Associative Dimensions

sepp6NPPB — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 19:58:37 GMT

I was simply answering the question about Workspaces - I use a hybrid - You really can't completely escape the Ribbon, there are just too many commands that are nested in there.
So I have both - floating toolbars and ribbon visible.
WHICH IS PRETTY EASILY UNDERSTOOD FROM WHAT I WROTE (predominantly use - i.e., I use both ribbon and toolbars).

And what I ALSO WROTE - is that have customized it, I show all the ribbon tabs and I have custom toolbars since the early 2000s. What would make you think I didn't know what you were talking about?

Not to mention - as we have interacted before - I am a seasoned user and you know this.

I have to say, you might be a community legend, but you always seem to be talking down to users.
And maybe you don't intend it, but it certainly reads that way and I'm kind of tired of it.

And no - my original issue is not resolved - I just had other things to do - which I also wrote earlier in this thread.