topic Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue in AutoCAD Forum

Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:02:57 GMT

Hello,

I am currently getting .dwg files from architects that seems to include invisible blocks. These blocks from some architects seem to number in the 16,000's, while the largest mass of them that I have gotten was around 116,386 instances of them.

I have gone through some of them and found the blocks using a QSelect and selecting them by name and then deleting them one by one. Even with nothing else in the drawing, having this block in the drawing causes a stuttering on my machines. (Some of which are spec'd way beyond what a drafter would need)

Today, while dealing with one of these drawings, I decided to peak inside the block. There was oddly another block named "DIMSET" (Going to try to upload a stripped out version of it)

This is interesting, because DIMSET shouldn't be causing this stuttering and there is nothing else in the drawing.

Anyone know how to cause the stuttering to stop? In the attached file the block is called "Setup", but in other files it could be a number of things. Sometimes they reference the architect's local drive.

I have tried to ask the client to get the architects to stop leaving these annoying blocks in, but they seem to refuse. If I mass select them and delete them, the stuttering stops.

What is causing this? Besides having them stripped, how do I fix the stuttering?

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:15:53 GMT

No idea how it happened... but I am the one who made the above post. It seems to have made the post as my coworker... but really sure how it seemed to have her signed in on my profile. 😞

As there is no way to delete posts, I can't fix it.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

imadHabash — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:19:14 GMT

Hi,

All unused objects can be deleted by PURGE ( ALL ) command .

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:25:12 GMT

Again, they are being used as there are 16,690 instances of the block in the drawing. The block cannot be easily purged.

I have to actually qselect the block, then delete it.

How do I easily solve the stuttering problem.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

imadHabash — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:26:14 GMT

can we have a CAD dwg sample with those blocks and lines ?

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:28:17 GMT

There is an example DWG in the OP, literally called "EXAMPLE.DWG"

But here it is again, I guess?

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

ennujozlagam — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:32:03 GMT

you can try to select all your drawings and paste in a new drawing file and see if helps. thanks

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:37:32 GMT

Again, the issue is that selecting the block is still something...

This is a growing problem, as there used to be one architect doing it and now there are 4.

How do I get the drawing to play nice with my machines is the question. Having to fight the drawings in some cases to simply delete a block with virtually nothing in it is a hassle that costs time.

I would make a lisp routine to just select and delete the blocks, but in some of their drawings it is named one thing, and in others there can be 2-3 differently named blocks causing the issue.

The architects act like there is nothing. The clients just seem to think we are the problem.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

imadHabash — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 03:09:18 GMT

your drawing contains objects from newer version. you wont be able stop stuttering since those invisible items still there . you can get rid of those item by Erase (All) :

Command: E ERASE
Select objects: all 18459 found
Command: PU
PURGE No orphaned data found.
Purged setup.
Purged reoof.
Purged 2ND.
Purged AREA.
Purged BRICK.
Purged CLG.
Purged CYN.
Purged DOOR.
Purged ELEC.
Purged EWIRE.
Purged FIX.
Purged FLOOR.
Purged GLASS.
Purged GRN.
Purged HIDDEN.
Purged HWALL.
Purged LS.
Purged PORCH.
Purged PROP.
Purged RAILING.
Purged RED.
Purged ROD.
Purged ROOF.
Purged ROOFING.
Purged ROOFWALL.
Purged ROOM SIZE.
Purged SHELVES.
Purged STONE.
Purged T-BLOCK.
Purged TEXT.
Purged WALL.
Purged WINDOW AREA.
Purged WOOD.
Purged YEL.
Purged DIMSET.
Purged DASHED.
Purged HIDDEN.
Purged CENTER2.
Purged HIDDEN2.
Purged DASHDOT.
Purged V-PHANTOM.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 03:23:28 GMT

Erasing everything is not possible, as that would erase any drawing in the file.

Yeah, I didn't upload the file from the architect, just a file with a line and the blocks. No, I will not be uploading that file as it is a client's file.

So, Erase All isn't an option.

PU results in "PURGE No orphaned data found." So... the block wasn't purged and the stuttering continues.

Back to square one - There is a block in the drawing that is not visible, cannot be purged without first being selected by a QSELECT, and knowing which block to select before erasing it.

How do I get the stuttering to stop? Selecting the blocks (again, there are multiple names now among multiple architects) and then having to guess which one is causing the problem doesn't work because I can spend upwards of an hour trying to figure it out.

And no, this isn't an "old version" issue. I am running this on 2018. I have tried the file in 2015, 2018, 2019, and 2020. The problem existed before 2021's release. I have had the problem on multiple machines, it is not a hardware issue.

This is a block specific issue. The block is causing the issue. How do I stop this from being a problem?

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

imadHabash — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 03:56:05 GMT

>> So, Erase All isn't an option.

>> Back to square one

>> This is a block specific issue. The block is causing the issue.

That's right !!

>> And no, this isn't an "old version" issue.

type -EXPORTTOAUTOCAD in your command line and read the result ( maybe for my version) .

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 03:39:15 GMT

Since people can't seem to understand that this is a persistent problem in multiple drawings,

Here is a second example file from a different architect. This one the the blocks is also named "setup" but the number is so high the property window simply cannot even render the number of them.

Again, the block inside of the block is named DIMSET

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 04:05:00 GMT

Done. No problem. Exports fine. see screenshot

Still have no answer to the block issue.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

Kent1Cooper — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 12:52:30 GMT

I don't know about the stuttering, but if it's coming from the massive quantity of Blocks, then you need to get rid of them. If the Blocks are invisible, you could try this, which would not require you to know the Block name(s) as QSELECT or FILTER do, and would work collectively with multiple such Blocks:

Make sure all LAYERs are thawed, on, and unlocked -- REGEN may be needed if any were frozen.

ZOOM to the Extents.

ERASE command, type in ALL option then de-select everything visible [Shift + window selection].

You may need to repeat in Model Space and all Layouts.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

pkolarik — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 13:28:40 GMT

Would it be easier at this point to select the stuff you *do* want to keep, copy/paste it into a file that doesn't have all these invisible blocks, and use that file going forward?
If the blocks are truly "invisible", you shouldn't be able to select them with a window, correct? If, with a window, you are able to select the grip/node of these "invisible" blocks, then you could also try turning off the layers with the content you want to keep (hopefully the blocks aren't incorporating any of those same layers) and deleting the blocks that way too.

Edit: It's curious that the issues are coming in drawings from 4 different architects. Are these architects from four different companies? Or from the same company? If from four different companies, sorry to say, it would *seem* the issue is on your end, as that would be one heck of a coincidence otherwise.

I opened your "example2.dwg" from later in this thread. Yeah, it was very stuttery. Most of that went away very quickly for me, but the drawing is still very slow and unresponsive to work in. However, after purging, the "rename" tool only found 9 block definitions still in the drawing. (yes there's probably many instances of some of them, of course).

So, then I started at the bottom of the list of 9 and qselect/deleted "setup", "plot", and "dimset" blocks (totaling around 83,000 blocks) and the stuttering and lagging of the drawing appears to be completely gone. (total time for this exercise, about 2 minutes)

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

pendean — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 13:14:16 GMT

What is your AutoCAD version as listed in ABOUT command?
Not seeing any stuttering in your files here in R2019-R2021

None of your sample files contain 16000 blocks or instances of blocks, and everything not used is purgeable in your sample files. I did notice missing XREFs in your samples, perhaps you need to repair and purge those files separately?

>>>...but they seem to refuse...<<<
Are you expecting perfect clean and pristine drawings from outside firms perhaps? That will never happen, that's all on you, they are too busy (like you) assuming they care in the first place (some do not). Develop in-house workflows to clean up external files before you need to use them, then build that time in your contracts so you're not stuck doing free work.

WBLOCK is the perfect tool for many to instantly remove unused content and works wonders in your two examples.

Good luck.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:49:58 GMT

Currently showing 2018. I have tried it on 2020, same issue occurs.

Again, if you:

QSELECT > Block Reference > Name > setup

You will find them. The fact that you say they do not exist and other people on here have verified the stuttering now at newer versions and that the blocks exists makes me more curious about your setup, as something YOU have is allowing it to not be a problem.

I do not expect perfect drawings. I do not expect even good drawings half the time. I do, however, expect drawings that do not bring my machine to a crawl.

WBLOCK - Doesn't let me use "delete from drawing" unless the blocks are selected. Cannot select them if they are not able to be selected using the marque. If I select Block > setup, to get the block I want, the option to delete the block is no longer an option. This leaves the QSELECT option inside of WBLOCK. (Why am I back to QSELECT? I am trying to find a better option than searching through for an hour when I get these drawings.) When I QSELECT, it says I have over 16,669 objects. Afterwards it gives me option to save the drawing.

1) This doesn't fix the problem where I have to search for the block and know which block is causing the issue.
2) This makes a copy of the file. There is no purpose to this other than to have another file? That still contains the setup block that is causing the issue? What am I missing here? It seems to have made the file work smoother, but what exactly happened? It purged the blocks? Don't I now have to do this for every drawing and know which block ahead of time is going to cause the issue? What exactly does this do other than the QSELECT that I was already doing and deleting them? I do like that it seems to have purged it in the process... which is nice. But... why?

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:56:26 GMT

@pkolarik It would be nice to do that, but unfortunately the marque selection with the stuttering is almost impossible to use on larger drawings with the issue. I could just ctrl+A, but then I select the invisible blocks too... which leads me back to the problem that they are there. The blocks are actually on just about EVERY layer in the drawing, which also makes selecting only them nearly impossible.

The architects are from different companies. Hence why the names of the blocks are not consistent. If they were all from the same architect with the same block name I would just write a LISP routine and call it a day. The fact that example2.dwg stutters on your computer. Purging only works so well. It won't purge them if they are there, and again, if I don't delete them first it is a problem. To delete them I have to find them. To find them I have to spend 30min+, and again the names are not consistent.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

stork91 — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 17:00:03 GMT

@Kent1Cooper

The issue is that the stuttering make using the marque/window difficult to impossible to use reliably. Hence why I started QSELECT 'ing everything.

I am tempted to just make a LISP routine doing exactly what you have described though... as it seems it would be the easiest to solving the issue, but I still have hope there is a better solution.

Re: Invisible blocks in the thousands causing issue

jggerth — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:12:06 GMT

One thing I would check is identifying what add-on or external software the architects are using, that may help incoming up with a faster resolution