topic Re: Saving a modified symbol in AutoCAD Electrical Forum

Saving a modified symbol

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 17:56:57 GMT

I have a symbol that I've created with the symbol editor and inserted into a drawing. Now I've had to modify the attributes size/location,

How can I save the modified block to the block definition in my libs folder?

e.g. If I change an attribute text height which was 0.100 to 0.125, if I Edit the block or try to edit it in Symbol Builder, it always comes up with the old values. Same for attribute locations.

Is there any way to save the block as it is in my drawing?

Re: Saving a modified symbol

jalger — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:23:13 GMT

Hi Baberb,

Are you using the Block Editor or the Symbol builder?

If you click on "DONE" it should force you to resave the symbol in the library location defined in your Project.

If you Save the block (i.e. block editor), its only modified in the drawing.

If your not sure, Wblock the Symbol out to its own drawing then drop it into the Library folder.

I hope this helps,

Regards,

Re: Saving a modified symbol

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:28:33 GMT

It's the same in both, block editor and symbol editor: when I open the editor, it doesn't have the current symbol as it is in my drawing, it is the original symbol. Trying to just save the symbol as it is in my drawing...

Re: Saving a modified symbol

jalger — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:31:09 GMT

Hmm,

Can you post the Drawing with the symbol? (clean out any proprietary data before posting it)

I'll see if I can extract it for you.

Regards,

Re: Saving a modified symbol

jalger — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:32:23 GMT

Also send a quick screenshot of the Symbol you modified so I know which one to extract.

Re: Saving a modified symbol

jseefdrumr — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:49:27 GMT

You need to make the edits in the source block itself. Do not use BEDIT for this. And Symbol Builder is for making new symbols...not so great for editing them.

Option 1: Open the block's dwg in ACADE and make the same adjustments as you did before, when it was in your drawing. Save it.

Option 2: Make a copy of the existing (correct) symbol, then use special explode on it (AEEXPLODE). Then use WBLOCK to turn it back into a block and when you're prompted for a save location, just overwrite the old dwg. Be sure to maintain the original insertion point; exploding the symbol kills its basepoint.

Just in case you didn't already know -- there is a difference between a block and a block definition. The former, technically, is a dwg all on its own with nothing else in the file. A block definition, on the other hand, is like a copy of the block, and the data that represents it only exists in your drawing. (Despite this difference, the vast majority of us use the word 'block' interchangeably for both.) This is what enables you to take a dwg file from your office to some other place and still see the blocks and symbols you've used.
By contrast, block definitions stay with the drawing. Any edits you make to them via BEDIT are not to the block -- they're to the block definition. There is no path information stored in the block definition, so BEDIT can't write changes back to the source dwg. This is why you have to edit the block in its source dwg if you want the changes to be universal.

Hope this helps,
Jim

Re: Saving a modified symbol

jalger — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:11:45 GMT

Jim,

You will have a hard time adding additional wire connections by not going through the Symbol Builder. (xterms suck to add manually 🙂 )

When the Symbol builder is used properly its a great tool for editing, you just have to make sure you hit "DONE" instead of close block editor.

Re-authoring the block is the best way to make sure you push the data out correctly.

Option 1 is the cleanest method to make a quick change.

Baberb, as per Jim's idea, you should look for a temporary block (block definition) My guess is it will have a "_1" behind it.

Regards,

Re: Saving a modified symbol

jseefdrumr — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:36:24 GMT

I actually find it much easier to add wire connections manually; I think the symbol Builder interface is kind of doggy and cumbersome. I used it long enough to figure out how ACADE symbols behave, then started making them all from scratch. It's great for making sure that you have all the attributes you need though.

I'm sure that's why I didn't know about that little trick about hitting 'Done'... perhaps it's time to revisit SB now that I've got a year of ACADE under my belt.

Re: Saving a modified symbol

jalger — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:51:18 GMT

Hi Jim,

It doesn't help that the AutoCAD Electrical intro book incorrectly tells people to use the "close block editor" button which 50% of the time doesn't bring up the same dialog that "Done" button always brings up. (Save Symbol Dialog).

Anyway try using the done button that forces the Block to be reauthored.

You should have better luck using the Symbol builder after that.

Regards,

Re: Saving a modified symbol

TRLitsey — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 21:24:25 GMT

Hi there, just thought I would make a short comment.

I would agree with jseefdrumr in that I always open the .dwg ( ie file FP_002_LUG.dwg) file of the block for direct editing. Open the way you would open any other dwg file. You can do this with standard AutoCad if you wish. Change the values and setting and position for the attributes you want to modify and Save the file, as in replace the old file with the new. Change the values of each attribute using the Modify > Properties tool.

You can test it by inserting your newly modified block into a NEW clean drawing. If it works in the new drawing but still acts funny in the old drawing you probably need to run the PURGE command in the old drawing.

You may or may not know that using the Delete tool does not completely remove the block from the drawing. You need to run the Purge command to completely remove the block.

Good luck

Re: Saving a modified symbol

Icemanau — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 00:08:27 GMT

I agree on the current Symbol Builder.

It is very hard to use and takes you away from the schematic you are working on leaving you without any frame of reference on where to place wire connections.

If I have to create a new block from scratch, I tend to use the Black Box Symbol Builder (WD_SYM_BUILD on the command line or added to the CUI) but when I modify a block, I just open it as a dwg and do it all manually.

Yes, copying the wire connections can be a bit tedious when doing more than a couple, but I find it easier than using the Symbol Builder.

Regards Brad

Re: Saving a modified symbol

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 06:17:13 GMT

Hi,

When i modifying the created symbol from symbol builder and pulling it for use, it is taking the previous symbol which i created not the one which i modified..

Can you please tell me the steps i should follow to pull the modified symbol..

Re: Saving a modified symbol

rhesusminus — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 07:53:57 GMT

This is just the way AutoCAD works. Have a look at the "swap/update block" tool in AcadE, that will help you update the symbols in your drawing/project to the new updated version.

Re: Saving a modified symbol

TRLitsey — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 15:10:23 GMT

Hi there,

If it is a drawing you have been working on, and have inserted this symbol previously, then you change the symbol and re-insert it, the old symbol is reference is still used in your drawing? To use the new symbol you either need to rename the modified symbol before inserting it or DELETE every instance of the symbol in the drawing THEN use the PURGE tool and remove it from the drawing, THEN insert the new symbol. The ACE drawing will 'remember' symbols/blocks inserted even when they have been ERASED. If this sounds odd use HELP and search for the PURGE tool

Note that the ACE Swap/Update tool will do all of the above for you automatically. It just does it so fast you don't see what is happening.

Good luck

Re: Saving a modified symbol

dougmcalexander — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 17:40:47 GMT

There have already been many great suggestions made here. For what it's worth, one of my favorite ways to edit a symbol is to simply open the drawing file by double-clicking it and editing it directly, as previously described in this thread. You can modify the graphics/geometry, modify attribute values, add or delete attributes, etc., directly, as was done with plain vanilla AutoCAD in years past. Hint: The only thing that makes a symbol (a.k.a. block) compatible with AutoCAD Electrical is the presence of attributes that AutoCAD Electrical can interpret, and in some cases their location within the block.

Note: As recommended in a previous post by Rhesusminus, be sure to use the Update Block utility to update symbol blocks that have already been inserted into your project drawings. The reason this is necessary is because the AutoCAD half of AutoCAD Electrical will avoid searching a hard drive for a symbol block if at all possible. It will search inside of the open drawing first to see if the block already exists in the drawing and, if found, it will make a copy of the existing block. So, even if you have an updated version of the symbol block on your hard drive, it will use the version that it found in the drawing file. And it will do this even if you have previously deleted the block from the drawing. It holds onto the block inside of the drawing file, even though it is no longer visible. This is where the Update Block utility becomes your best friend. The Update Block utility will delete and purge all instances of a block, insert the newest version from the library folder, and replace the attribute values that were previously assigned when you inserted the earlier version of the symbol block. As TRLitsey mentioned, the manual way to rid a drawing of even the deleted version of a block is to use the AutoCAD Purge utility after you have deleted every instance of the block from the drawing. I caution new users against using the plain AutoCAD Purge because they might accidentally purge layers that Electrical needs. The safest way to purge is to use the Purge that you find under Project Utilities. The Electrical engine controls this purge and it safely purges unused blocks only. I teach my clients to do this as one of the final tasks in my release checklist before releasing drawings, just to be sure that any deleted and unused blocks are no longer taking up space in the drawing file.

Another great option for creating/editing symbols, especially if you aren't yet familiar with what attributes are required, or optional, for AutoCAD Electrical compatibility is to use the Symbol Builder, but I prefer the original version of the Symbol Builder, as evidenced by numerous past posts by me on this forum, and as mentioned earlier in this thread by icemanau. You can still access the original Symbol Builder by typing WD_SYM_BUILD at the command prompt and pressing the Enter key on your keyboard.

To use the original Symbol Builder to edit an existing symbol in place, simply use the AutoCAD Explode command against the symbol you wish to edit on your drawing. Make any graphical changes you wish using plain vanilla AutoCAD commands such as Move, Trim. Extend, Stretch, Line, Circle, etc. You can even double-click an attribute and change its default value if needed. Next, type WD_SYM_BUILD at the command prompt and press Enter. Select all entities that make up this symbol, including graphics and attributes. Choose whether or not this symbol is a schematic parent or child, terminal, footprint, etc., so the Symbol Builder will load the appropriate attribute list and editing tools. The most important attributes are listed under the Standard list. Just click Standard to insert or edit these. There are also options within this original Symbol Builder to add additional attributes such as ratings, wire connections, contact state, links, etc. There are also tools to edit existing attribute placement, text size, justification, etc., by clicking Change at the lower left. When you finish with your edits, click the button at the lower left, labeled WBLOCK. Note that the default location where the WBLOCK command will store your new or modified symbol is set in the wd.env (Wiring Diagram environment) file. If you have not defined an alternate path, the default is your User folder when using the original Symbol Builder or the top-most library folder that is defined in your project properties when using the newer version of Symbol Builder that was introduced in release 2009. Be sure to name the block properly according to the block naming conventions described in other posts on this forum, and from the Helps inside of AutoCAD Electrical. Replace the letters DV (stands for Device) in the block name with letters that correspond to the table name in the Catalog Database where part numbers for this type of device are stored. If you have modified an existing block, you will want to name it the same as it was when it was previously stored to the library folder. I usually create a special library folder named Custom Symbols and this is where I store symbols I create or modify. I place this library first in the schematic symbol library list of project properties. And be sure to use the Update Block utility to update instances of this block that already exist in your project drawings.

This original, or as I call it Classic, version of Symbol Builder can also be used to create a new symbol. I usually start by drawing the graphics of my symbol (i.e. square, circle, and rectangle) in place over the wires where the new symbol will be connected. Next I start the original Symbol Builder by typing WD_SYM_BUILD at the command prompt. I then select the graphics that I just added over my wires. I do not select the wires themselves, only the graphics that I wish to make into a symbol block. And since this is a new symbol block, I will be inserting the attributes for the first time. I make sure that I set the justification and text size before I click the Insert Attribute button to place each attribute. If I forget, I just use the built-in editing tools to edit the size and justification by clicking Change from within the Standard attributes dialog window. You can also exit the Symbol Builder by pressing your ESC key several times. Then make your edits with plain vanilla AutoCAD commands like Move, Trim. Extend, Stretch, Line, Circle, etc., as mentioned before. After you finish with your edits, engage the original Symbol Builder again, select all graphics and attributes again, make any additional edits you wish, and click WBLOCK to save the block. Again, be sure to name the block properly according to the block naming conventions described in other posts on this forum, or from the Helps inside of AutoCAD Electrical.

I show the original Symbol Builder each time I teach my 5-day AutoCAD Electrical course, time permitting, and in most cases my customers prefer it. If they think they will make regular use if it I give them an icon I created and show them how to add the original Symbol Builder to their ribbon menu, so it is only a click away.

Re: Saving a modified symbol

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:19:05 GMT

We are showing wire connections from one connector to another, but connector will have "crimp" which should be actually used on wire to insert it into the respective connectors. How to add "Crimp" part numbers in drawing to get into the From/To reports (Automatic reports)?

Re: Saving a modified symbol

rhesusminus — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:19:03 GMT

There are no out-of-the-box way to add parts like a "crimp" to the wire, and get it in the from/to reports.

There must be some coding done in a user post.

Also, please create a new post in this forum for new questions like this. It will make it easier for new users that's searching for something similar.

Re: Saving a modified symbol

dougmcalexander — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:04:40 GMT

If you search this forum this issue has been discussed before. A few releases ago Autodesk added user fields to the wire number blocks. You could enter crimps, ferrules, etc. there. It won't add them to the BOM but you can add them to the From/To list. Like Trond said, there is no out-of-box way to specify a specific crimp for each end of a wire but you could at least add them to the user fields of the wire number with the out-of-box version.