topic Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer in Arnold for Cinema 4D Forum

C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

whelectric — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:52:31 GMT

Hi dear

I have attached 2 pictures of my setting and rendering result as your reference.

May I know why the picture viewer can not show the render result in the correct color directly when I set view transform to ACES 1.0 SDR-video(sRGB)?

but it works well if load the ExR file to the picture viewer and set view transform to ACES1.0 SDR-video (sRGB)?

Hope to hear from you soon, thanks

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Wed, 05 Oct 2022 13:01:37 GMT

Unfortunately the Picture Viewer and Save with OCIO in Cinema 4D 2023 are buggy at the moment. To be able to display the image correctly in the Picture Viewer, the Bake view transform flag needs to be enabled. But that makes the saved exr output wrong. Maxon is aware of the issues and working on fixing them.

Meanwhile you can rely on the IPR and ignore the Picture Viewer. Or you can use an Arnold EXR driver instead of the native Save and enable the Bake view transform flag. This way the Picture Viewer will be correct as well as the exr saved by the Arnold driver.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

whelectric — Wed, 05 Oct 2022 16:04:31 GMT

well noted ,thank you so much

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

mckenzie2VER2 — Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:12:44 GMT

Currently I get one version in the IPR and a much more saturated version when saved to the picture viewer. When saving out from the Picture Viewer to the desktop it's even less saturated.

C4D 2023 is set to the new OCIO default. Cinema 4D (project settings) is selected in the render settings along with bake view transform. IPR color space is the default ACES. Trying to just save out a regular .jpg or .png. Using the current Arnold release.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

mckenzie2VER2 — Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:27:35 GMT

Apologies, fixed it, user error. My monitor was set to Adobe RGB instead of sRGB.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 07:12:23 GMT

I'm glad to hear you have found the solution and the plugin is working fine.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

mckenzie2VER2 — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 01:02:40 GMT

just circling back to this to this as saving from the IPR to the picture viewer results in more saturation in the picture viewer. Color management in the render settings are set to c4D Project and the Bake View transform is checked.

Colors match the IPR in the actual file after saving from the picture viewer however.

Am I missing something?

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 11:05:16 GMT

@mckenzie2VER2 wrote:
just circling back to this to this as saving from the IPR to the picture viewer results in more saturation in the picture viewer. Color management in the render settings are set to c4D Project and the Bake View transform is checked.

Colors match the IPR in the actual file after saving from the picture viewer however.

Am I missing something?

I don't see any difference between the IPR and the snapshot saved to the Picture Viewer. Can you reproduce it with a basic scene, like a cube and a flat color? Or do you have a scene which I can look at? You are using the latest C4DtoA 4.5.1 in Cinema 4D 2023.1.3 on Mac, right?

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

mckenzie2VER2 — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:26:36 GMT

Happens on new scenes as well. Screenshots are of a new scene I setup yesterday. Also tried a basic cube and plane etc. Same thing.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 17:16:58 GMT

So you have a render in the IPR window (IPR.png), you click on the snapshot button and Picture Viewer.png is what you get, right? Does not seem like a color space issue. Could be some local setting or filter in the Picture Viewer? What if you render to the Picture Viewer, how does that compare to the snapshot made from the IPR?

Can you send me this exact scene to check if I see the same thing here?

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

brianswarthout — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 18:01:49 GMT

Hello,

I'm wondering if this issue has been addressed in the latest Cinema4D releases as I'm experiencing similar saturation discrepancies between the Picture Viewer and After Effects.

Thanks,
- Brian

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 18:19:54 GMT

Should be fine with the latest Cinema 4D and plugin version. If that's not the case, could you please show me your color management and Save settings and the output?

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

brianswarthout — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 04:08:34 GMT

Hello,

I've created a simple scene to reproduce the color issues I'm experiencing with the ACES workflow when rendering with C4DtoA 4.5.1.2 in Cinema 4D 2023.1.3 and compositing with After Effects 2023.2.1.

The issue I'm experiencing is that when I bring any of the renders do in the Picture Viewer into After Effects for compositing, they're over-saturated when compared to viewing in the Picture Viewer or the Arnold IPR. I can't seem to track down where the discrepancy is coming from. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cinema 4D Color Management Settings in "Project" Attributes (See Attached Screenshot)

Color Managemnt : OpenColorIO
Preset: ACES
Render Space: ACEScg
Display Space: sRGB
View Transform: ACES 1.0 SDR-video

Render Settings - Save (See attached screenshot)
Saving a "Regular Image" as:

Format: OpenEXR
32 bit/channel
8 Bit dithering
Not baking View Transform

Saving a "Multipass Image" with 2 AOVs active (diffuse and specular) as:

Format: OpenEXR
32 bit/channel

Render Settings - Arnold (See attached Screenshot)

Color Manager: Cinema 4D (Project Settings)

Arnold IPR Settings

View Transform: ACES 1.0 SDR-video

After Effects Color Settings (See attached Screenshot)

All OpenEXR files are brought into After Effects as "footage" and interoperated using the "scene_linear: ACEScg" color space.

Color Engine: OCIO color managed
OCIO Configuration: ACES 1.3 CG v1.0
Bit Depth: 32 bits/channel
Working Color Space: scene_linear: ACEScg
Display Color Space: sRBG - Display/ACES 1.0 - SDR Video
Viewport View Transform: Display/ACES 1.0 - SDR Video

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

brianswarthout — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 06:07:07 GMT

Update:
I think I have found where the discrepancy between the Arnold IPR / Picture Viewer / After Effects arises from. After some testing using the color management settings I originally outlined in this post, I've achieved the following results.

I'm able to get exact color matches between C4D's Picture Viewer and After Effects on 32 Bit EXRs if the "Monitor Color Space" configuration is off in the picture viewer's "View Transform" settings.
I've achieved perfect color matches between the Arnold IPR and C4D's Picture Viewer on 32 bit EXRs if the "Monitor Color Space" configuration is on in the picture viewer's "View Transform" settings.
I cannot find a way to match the color in After Effects to the Arnold IPR.

This makes me think that the "Monitor Color Space" is being applied over (or baked into) the selected Color Space in the Arnold IPR. Is there a way to further refine the Color Space setting for the Arnold IPR? Ideally, the IPR would precisely match Picture Viewer or vice versa.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 10:22:25 GMT

I guess the question is, where does the Monitor Color Profile setting comes from. I can't find any information on it.

The Arnold IPR takes the render output (linear space, e.g. ACEScg), applies the view transform selected in the IPR window (scene settings by default, e.g. ACES 1.0 SDR-video) and draws the image to the window. So it seems like Cinema 4D applies this Monitor Color Profile automatically. I'll investigate if it can be turned off from the API. But for now there's no specific option in the IPR window.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

brianswarthout — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 18:43:03 GMT

Thanks so much Peter. Your time, consideration and knowledge is greatly appreciated.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

brianswarthout — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 18:48:39 GMT

Another, possibly related question I have regards the "Linear Workflow" option in Cinema 4D's "Viewport Display" preferences.

Should I have this enabled when working in ACES? This option affects the Viewport Display, it does not seem to affect the color discrepancy between the Picture Viewer/After Effects and the Arnold IPR.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Thu, 09 Mar 2023 15:47:34 GMT

@brianswarthout wrote:
Another, possibly related question I have regards the "Linear Workflow" option in Cinema 4D's "Viewport Display" preferences.

Should I have this enabled when working in ACES? This option affects the Viewport Display, it does not seem to affect the color discrepancy between the Picture Viewer/After Effects and the Arnold IPR.

In theory it should not affect anything when using OCIO, it should be always linear. Not sure if it's a bug in the Viewport Display or intended. What I can tell is that Arnold does not use this option at all when rendering.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

dagmanson — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 22:54:48 GMT

Hello @brianswarthout,

Did you ever figure out a solution for this issue? I have the same exact setup and problem as you describe, but can't seem to sort it out, even after hours of testing and researching.

Re: C4D 2023 ,Render a scence with C4D native aces ,but render result is different color between IPR and picture viewer

peter_horvath — Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:34:22 GMT

@dagmanson Have you tried turning off the Monitor Color Profile?

From brianswarthout:

I think I have found where the discrepancy between the Arnold IPR / Picture Viewer / After Effects arises from. After some testing using the color management settings I originally outlined in this post, I've achieved the following results.

I'm able to get exact color matches between C4D's Picture Viewer and After Effects on 32 Bit EXRs if the "Monitor Color Space" configuration is off in the picture viewer's "View Transform" settings.
I've achieved perfect color matches between the Arnold IPR and C4D's Picture Viewer on 32 bit EXRs if the "Monitor Color Space" configuration is on in the picture viewer's "View Transform" settings.