topic Re: Pipe Wraps in Advance Steel Forum

Pipe Wraps

iwafb — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 03:53:36 GMT

HI All,

AS seems happy enough to produce a drawing showing the relationship between a specific member and the wraparounds at each end. Just curious, how do I then provide my client with the actual wraparounds of each end so that it can be printed to scale (1:1)?

Thanks in advance...

Re: Pipe Wraps

wtheron — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 16:59:20 GMT

Under English International DS styles there are 1:1 wrap around templates available. You may need to use plot with window selection and custom paper size depending on the design.

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 08:13:44 GMT

Hi,

I've also been experimenting with pipe wraps recently, however i've noticed that when the wrap is printed 1:1, it comes out several mm short every time.

E.G. a tubular bracing of 60.3Ø should come out as with a developed length of 189.4mm ( π x 60.3), yet when printed 1:1 it comes out approx 177mm.

This is highlighted further by taking a parametric dimension of the same 177mm from the onscreen drawing.

So it seems to be the system that is calculating the developed length of the wrap incorrectly, rather than a communication error between system and printer/plotter.

It may sound obvious, but am i correct in thinking that a paper wrap intended to aid workshop fabrictation processes, should wrap all the way around the circumference of the pipe/tube to be cut?

Any ideas/thoughts anyone?

Re: Pipe Wraps

iwafb — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 21:12:17 GMT

Your theory is right. When I check my pipe wrap, it is correct...

I would start by checking my settings as it sounds feasible that you are developing the inside face of the pipe. Go to management tools/defauls, search for wrap, under drawing general you will see an option for wrap-around templates. Make sure it is set to combination of inner and outer created surface...

Secondly, to physically window each wrap and plot manually is not acceptable as we get jobs with hundreds of wraps. However, you can create a process that creates all left, then all right wraps in a separate folder (because of the style restrictions, each one of these must include a top or front view for the wrap to come out), so you will have to edit them all and remove the extra view.

Cheers...

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:17:42 GMT

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply and suggestions.

I found the wrap settings and oddly it was already set on combination of inner and outer created surface. However i've tried producing wrap templates on all three settings: inner, outer and combination. And had some rather odd results:

On a 60.3mm O/D tube, the combination setting produced a wrap of 177mm long, the outer setting produced a wrap of 177mm long, but the INNER setting produced a wrap of 188mm long, which of course is the correct developed length for the outer circumference of the tube.

I'm finding the results a bit confusing, but at least i can produce a wrap of the correct length now.

Cheers!

Re: Pipe Wraps

iwafb — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:24:14 GMT

Just for interest sake, what is the tube thickness?

Also, be careful with using inner or outer settings as this changes (or at least it should) the profile at the end. Generally speaking, you should always use a combined profile since when a pipe is profiled to another pipe, and the pipes aren't perpendicular, there is a transition point where the contact edges go from inside to outside (sorry if I'm preaching to the choir...).

I haven't found discrepancies like you mentioned. Having said that, I haven't been checking the wraps too much.

Do you have the "unfold profile" button ticked int he section properties of the pipe?

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:35:12 GMT

5mm wall thickness (CHS 60.3x5)

No worries about the profile shape 😉 having shaped many a pipe myself over the years on the shopfloor, i am fully aware of the issues.

I'll check the pipe properties tomorrow.

Cheers!

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 08:12:34 GMT

Hi,

Having just checked the advanced properties of the tube, the unfold profile display options isn't in the list - i'm presuming because the tube is continuous shelled object with no seam, it cannot in effect be unfolded(?)

Just thinking, could the problem stem from the cutting feature i'm using? I've been using the 'element contour - rule' cutting feature in the beam section.

Re: Pipe Wraps

iwafb — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:10:29 GMT

I think you are looking in the display properties, not the part properties?

As far as I can tell, the only difference this makes is that it reports the length properly (that is, to the actual "square cut" length). However, I don't seem to be getting the template errors you are describing (although I haven't checked too many at this stage), so it might also have something to do with the development. I'm also a newbie as far as AS is concerned, maybe some of the more experienced users can offer a better description as to the difference ticking unfold profile makes...

Another tip. By having "unfold profile" ticked, I was able to filter/isolate these elements in the drawing process so that it produces the left and right templates in one go. AND, by I, I mean with a lot of help from my friendly Autodesk support guy (Thanks Gumby...!)

The "element contour - rule" is also what I use to cut the pipe ends...

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:40:48 GMT

Hi there,

That's excellent information, thank you!

I've now tried producing a wrap template on all the recommended settings i.e. a combination of inner and outer surfaces and unfold profile ticked in the section properties. I was feeling rather hopeful, but when i checked the length of the template wrap, it's still short by 11m for the outer circumference.

Baffling...

On smaller diameter thinner wall tubes, it's not a massive issue as far as potential problems on the shop floor go.

However on larger diameter, thicker wall tubes, the problem would be magnified.

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 16:53:29 GMT

I think your problem lies within the Management tools.

There is an option under defaults/general/general:

Expansion Method for Unfolding - there are 5 options there. Try changing to "By Outer Contours" and see if that helps.

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 20:57:08 GMT

Many thanks for the suggestion and assistance!

Unfortunately having changed the setting you suggested (and a couple of it's variations), it didn't make any difference to the developed length.

i.e. a 60.3 O/D tube is still coming out at 177mm long wrap.

I've experiemented on other, larger diameters too and the problem is the same - with the bigger the diameter, the bigger the developed length discrepancy.

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:56:25 GMT

Did you remember to select "Update Defaults" from Advance Steel after making the changes in the Management tools? It doesn't update the program settings automatically, only when Advance Steel is restarted, or when you force the update manually.

Re: Pipe Wraps

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:18:56 GMT

Yes, i've just tried it again for the umpteenth time, checking each setting as i go including 'update defaults', but still no good...

The ONLY setting i can get the correct length wrap from is when the wrap-around template setting within General/Drawing is set to 'inner created surface'.

This is fine for perpendicular tube joints, but not, as has been said before, for angled joints where there is a transition of shape between inner and outer surfaces due to the tube wall thickness.

It's truly baffling..

Re: Pipe Wraps

russellb — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:53:24 GMT

Hi,

The setting you need to change in Management Tools are not under the search "unfold" but are under "wrap".

I have tried this and it seems to resolve your issue.