topic Re: Odd nc/dxf output? in Advance Steel Forum

Odd nc/dxf output?

daniel.tarnowski — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:49:17 GMT

I am creating nc/dxf files for model objects and I am getting a very strange result for sloped handrail posts.

I have attached a screen shot of the model objects, a screenshot of the .nc1 file in a third party viewer, and the dxf file created of the same part. My ultimate goal is to send this profile to our 5 axis plasma table and cut the handrail posts from 1/2" plate. This is no problem for horizontal handrail, but get some "jagged" features with sloped handrail. I am far from an expert with NC language, but is there something I can do to clean this up? Can anyone explain why this is happening?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

bigcarl5000kg — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 08:12:38 GMT

Hi @daniel.tarnowski ,

the problem starts already in the model - it's all about the representation of such sloped hole / machining. This is big problem in Advance Steel - how did you make the hole? Manually or with some tool?

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

daniel.tarnowski — Fri, 02 Dec 2022 19:38:20 GMT

@bigcarl5000kg

I'm not sure I understand your questions. From a modeling standpoint, the feature was created using a contour processing. (Features-Element Contour Rule or Element Contour) From the screenshot I provided, I believe it depicts what I am trying to accomplish.

Perhaps a better example is if the handrail was horizontal or perpendicular to the HR post, the cut out shape would be a simple portion of a circle. (Half circle, quarter circle...) Both a NC and dxf file for these outputs fine for cutting the HR post out of plate using a cnc plasma table.

When the handrail is not perpendicular to the HR post, there is a bevel cut involved. It is this bevel cut I am trying to accomplish. We have a 5 axis plasma head on out table. Both the NC file as well as the dxf are coming out funny when there is this beveled cut involved.

Does this make sense to you?

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

acbsdesign — Sat, 03 Dec 2022 11:46:17 GMT

@daniel.tarnowski

Hi,

This is not a big issue for tiny gaps that are not visible (unwelded and architecturally exposed).

Depending on the machine, you may be able to use the NC file and modify it from there, but if the CNC operator is not cooperating, add the cuts manually using the copy with adjustment or just copy the manually done contour cut.

1. Create a tiny model view with a depth equal to the post thickness, place on post first

2. The real cut without bevel will be very close to an ellipse.

But since ellipse is not a polyline, we will need to build a polyline that is close to it, made of arcs and one line

Have one dimension from the very top of the cut to the bottom.

Midpoint of this dimension will be your centerline

3. Build one temporary ellipse, enter to end point of axis and the other axis.

Move 2-3 inches and build the real polyline -3 arcs and one line

4. Then move the real polyline back and use Polygon Contour UCS

and press P

and select the polyline

The result will be a nice cut normal to the surface, with a minimum of PJP welding at each end.

I know it takes time, but nothing is perfect and sometimes we need to put in more effort than anticipated.

Copy with Copy with Adjustments using the post as a reference or using the Advance Copy, this is seconds of work.

Also-it can be done with a custom connection for all locations having the same slope.

Sometimes we would offset the polyline 1/16” to enlarge the cut further but it depends on the situation.

Done this workaround many times and it is working fine.

Have a great weekend.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

bigcarl5000kg — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 15:25:32 GMT

What a work for such small machining 😁. I feel like Alice in Wonderland.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

acbsdesign — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 16:51:33 GMT

@bigcarl5000kg

Nc should show the exact cut, otherwise, the CNC operator would have, you know, that smile.

The one that no one else has.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

bigcarl5000kg — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 17:03:33 GMT

@acbsdesign,

is it possible that the CNC operator is more intelligent than the NC from the AS or the AS itself? That's the only way I can explain the series of (known) tricks you had to use 😁😉😀. Still, shapo...

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

acbsdesign — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 19:04:05 GMT

@bigcarl5000kg

Did not get that, really, but whatever.

It is Monday.

The day after Sunday.

That was the day after Saturday.

That was right after Friday.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

bigcarl5000kg — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 19:17:33 GMT

Conclusion: AS lacks only the desired intelligence, that first NC will notice it. In the real world, time plays no role, only the deeds. And since today is Monday, we were already looking forward to Friday yesterday 😀😉🤘

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

acbsdesign — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 19:18:00 GMT

If we do the math, time spent to fix a few copes / notches in AS is far less than letting them laid-out manually in the shop.

So is my (known) workflow worth it-yes, it does.

It will help the shop to save time and avoid potential errors.

This is what my experience shows.

I, BTW, live on Earth No.1 .

And experience still matters on my planet.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

bigcarl5000kg — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 19:41:12 GMT

When I often discuss with my very experienced colleague who has been using AS for almost 20 years and what functions it had before (which unfortunately no longer exist), even those almost 20 years cannot make up for the often lost time...who privately spent, like many of us here, to solve relatively banal and still existing problems... where is the desired limit of the measure that will give the user at least a good feelling. Hope dies last and I would say ... it is no longer with us. Each generation of users gradually reaches such a point of brake. It's like believing that the Titanic will rise to the surface again while watching it from a submarine. I tried it too and I know I will do it differently next time. One learns from mistakes and usually gets to the desired goal. I am not frustrated, I am fully focused on the change and I am very much looking forward. It flashes to better times... coming soon. Still, many thanks for the opportunity and experience... it showed me the right way.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

bigcarl5000kg — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 19:46:23 GMT

@acbsdesign

PS: if you buy the rights to Advance Steel, my door stays always opened. This is one of the real possibilities / ways to change the direction of the story.

Re: Odd nc/dxf output?

acbsdesign — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 21:25:23 GMT

Hold on, not interested in buying the rights, I am not that rich, hardworking man with lots of caffeine involved.

Don't give up so easily, buy a really good workstation, establish a business if you are not done yet, and use your spare time to improve AS, what is 20 years after all?

I had a colleague who always says I HAVE 25 YEARS EXPERIENCE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...I think he had the first year repeated 25 times.

That was a joke, of course, don't get it wrong.

Good night.

Don't give up. Others are NOT BETTER THAN AS-they all claim the same, to be superior to others, but they all have flaws.

I will stay with it.

Until I retire.

And move to the Chesapeake Bay. Or Upstate NY.