topic Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together? in 3ds Max Modeling Forum

How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:04:20 GMT

Hi,

I am building a kind of tunnel. I build one segment of the tunnel and after that I would like to PathDeform the complete tunnel. Unfortunately the tunnel consists of several different objects. So I selected everything and tried to PathDeform everything. But I get weird results. If I try FFD Modifier it works well (except for the problem with bended Arnold quad lights.)

Thanks for suggestions, appreciate the help!

All the best

Kai

( I am not a native English speaker, so forgive me if something is not correct.)

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 21:54:05 GMT

Here a detailed explanation of what I did.

Picture 1

This is the segment of the tunnel I built

Picture 2

Here I copied the tunnel segment 40 times but reverted to 6 copies.

Picture 3

Here I selected all Objects and put on an FFD 4x4 Modifier. Works very well but is not enough, the plan is to make a 10-12 seconds animation over a "race track" with more curves.

Picture 4

This happens if I apply a path deform modifier to all my objects.

Is there a way to achieve my desired result other than Attach all objects to one object before after applying the Array?

Thanks in advance 🙂

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

zirnworks — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 01:43:55 GMT

I have this same question. I need to be able to wrap a GROUP of objects along a spline so that they stay spaced the same respective to each other. (In other words, treat the group as an object.) The way my workflow is, collapsing all would be very timetaking, and prevents the ability to work on them properly once exploded again. Any workarounds?

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

10DSpace — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 04:26:52 GMT

@zirnworks

The way my workflow is, collapsing all would be very timetaking, and prevents the ability to work on them properly once exploded again. Any workarounds?

I am not sure what you mean by not being able to "work on them properly". If you,

1) attach the individual objects and create a single editable Poly object (Max makes each attached object a separate element)

2) apply your deformation with Path Deform (or any other method you choose) to this combined object

3) collapse the stack to an editable poly when happy with your path deformation and then

4. Separate each element back into it's own object via select Element and detach,

you will have the full complement of editable poly tools at your disposal to work on them same as before you did the path deform. Perhaps I have misunderstood your question, but wanted to at least mention this possibility in case you were not aware. Using @Anonymous 's tunnel example, see below,

Hope this helps.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

zirnworks — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 06:37:17 GMT

I am fully aware of the possibility to attach, deform, and then detach again.

However, this is not a good way to go for me, for a few reasons.

For one, my objects have a stack of modifiers on them such that I don't want to collapse them this early before bending along the path. I want to be able to change properties of the various components AFTER they are already on the path. Collapsing them to Edit Poly does not let me do this. And if I wanted to bend the same geometry to a new path, I can't, it has been locked in.

Also, I rely a lot on using the object's wire color in my workflow (it's a little unusual, but so is my task). It takes a lot of time to assign these colors. If I collapse to one single poly, I lose all that work, and would have to assign them all over again.

Some of my groups will have as tens/hundreds of objects. So far, my only workaround is to use a 3rd party script to take the object's wire color and create a V-ray material with former wire color as a diffuse color, then collapse them making one massive and unwieldy multi-material object. There is no way that I yet know of to translate those colors back to the object's wire colors again after it has been exploded, but I will investigate as a last resort. It's a lot of clicking regardless of whether it ends up working.

But even if the wirecolor part wasn't an issue, this will still cost me many hours in having to "remake" what I started with, given that I will need to do this a lot for my project.
I'm at a point where I'm willing to pay money for a tool that somehow allows me to conform a GROUP to a spline. I have looked for scripts... even RailClone seems to require that objects are collapsed to a single poly. I have tried out a few that indicate they can do this, but none have worked yet.

I haven't had a chance to explore space warps as an alternative, which seem promising... I should be able to take a crack at it tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

This seeming limitation is baffling and disappointing, given that so many distortions can be applied to groups of objects in Max without killing the other modifiers. FFD deforms, twist, bend, all that stuff. Wonder if there's something special about path deform under the hood?

Perhaps there's a workaround, like simulating a group without actually grouping. Further research needed/help appreciated. 🙂

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

domo.spaji — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 10:42:47 GMT

Of course it's not the same thing (attach, deform, and then detach).

And, of course you can apply modifier to the group (grouped or not) of objects with same result as to "group of elements" ( obj. attached/grouped in single EPoly/EMesh).

In most cases you do that in fastest way, and that is selecting all objects at once and apply modifier.

Only few things are changing when attaching, even less when detaching...

Check the pivots, centers, bounding boxes - measurements.

Some things are the same in attached and multi-selected case.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

10DSpace — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 14:07:48 GMT

@zirnworks

Have you checked out Containers? One of the forum experts here @miledrizk recently posted a solution concerning Containers (to a somewhat related problem) that might be of interest.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/how-to-transform-non-destructively-many-objects-e-g-a-complete/m-p/9348682#M184012

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

domo.spaji — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 19:22:54 GMT

Have you?

What happens when you apply Path Deform mod. to it?

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

zirnworks — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 20:09:03 GMT

Of course it's not the same thing (attach, deform, and then detach).

Fair enough. Just seemed like under the hood, they were all about warping the space the object occupies, but there's probably a lot more going on than that.

you can apply modifier to the group (grouped or not) of objects with same result as to "group of elements" ( obj. attached/grouped in single EPoly/EMesh).

In most cases you do that in fastest way, and that is selecting all objects at once and apply modifier.

I am aware of this. It would work fine if I had the same modifier applied to each object. But my modifiers/modifier parameters are often different per object (such as a different shell thickness per object). It seems to be impossible to attach objects with modifiers on them, without collapsing first. Same with detaching: If I detach an element with a shell modifier on it, it detaches as an editable poly with the shell baked in. If there's a workaround, I'd love to know.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

zirnworks — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 19:51:32 GMT

@10DSpace wrote:
Have you checked out Containers? One of the forum experts here @miledrizk recently posted a solution concerning Containers (to a somewhat related problem) that might be of interest.

I have, actually. Unfortunately, it does not seem to work. The group of "contained" objects does not stretch along the spline. The best I can do is get it to jump to the spline. I am not a container expert so perhaps I'm missing something..

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

domo.spaji — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 21:01:52 GMT

What really is your problem with this modifier?

If you working with groups than you've already try to apply it that way, or?

Have you seen any difference when applying to single EPoly/Emesh (attached elements)?

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

domo.spaji — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 21:12:16 GMT

Don't understand your reply to me.

I was not suggesting attaching/collapsing, I point you the way of applying modifier to multi-selection even without grouping them first.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

zirnworks — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 21:56:59 GMT

@domo.spaji wrote:
What really is your problem with this modifier?
If you working with groups than you've already try to apply it that way, or?
Have you seen any difference when applying to single EPoly/Emesh (attached elements)?

When I try applying Path Deform modifier to a group, the each object separately binds to the path, causing what was formerly a stack of objects to "flatten" and overlap one another. The modifier acts as if each object within that group is separate, and that its pivot is in its local center. I need their structure with respect to each other to be preserved the same way it is within the group.

The original group.

Demonstration of how seperate objects within a group zero out when Path Deform modifier is applied. The same thing happens if the objects were NOT grouped, and simply multiples were selected.

I have tried ungrouping the objects and resetting their pivots so that the pivot of each is on the XY plane regardless of its height on the Z axis. However, Path Deform seems to ignore this information.

When I attach all objects to one single EPoly, it works fine, but then I'm disrupting my workflow substantially to do so, as explained above.

@domo.spaji wrote:
Don't understand your reply to me.
I was not suggesting attaching/collapsing, I point you the way of applying modifier to multi-selection even without grouping them first.

Thanks for clarifying. It appears the same result happens whether or not the objects are grouped, or just multiples are selected when the modifier is applied.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

10DSpace — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 23:39:00 GMT

@zirnworks

To solve this particular issue you need to first check "Use Pivot Points" at the top of the modifier drop down. This will use the individual object pivot points when you apply any modifier including the Path Deform. See below.

Edit: Sorry, I see that his does not work consistently. When I tried another example, path deform did not work collapsed the objects and did not respect their individual pivots even with "Use Pivot Points Checked.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

domo.spaji — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 00:47:27 GMT

That should do just the opposite.

Whole point of groupings in any way is to make it work on selection center .

Now, I know Path Deform mod. is updated and have option for using pivot point (in its own options).

I'm with older Max and cant check it.

Wander is that default option?

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

10DSpace — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 02:38:24 GMT

@domo.spaji

"Now, I know Path Deform mod. is updated and have option for using pivot point (in its own options).

I'm with older Max and cant check it.

Wander is that default option?"

In Max 2020.3 the "Use pivot point" of the Path Deform object Space Modifier is not checked by default. If I check it with the tunnel example above (as a group) it collapses all of the individual elements to be superimposed on each other aligning each of the objects pivot points. Basically it doesn't help the situation that @zirnworks is having.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

bioclone_ax45 — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 13:43:01 GMT

What I did for some things like tracks was to create a hierarchy for the objects that are going to be deformed using the path, like on a chain create one master and slaves in fashion, then add the pathdeform only to the master, when moving to the path/spline and with the correct pivot placement, I noticed it works better for some things, you may try it.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

zirnworks — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 22:19:47 GMT

@Anonymous
@domo.spaji
@10DSpace

I finally found a workaround for this! Turns out the PathDeform modifier works properly for groups in Max 2017. Autodesk changed the way the modifier worked between then and version 2020.

If I open 2017 and use the PathDeform modifier on my group of objects, they follow the spline while keeping their position relative to one another just fine (although there are less options in this older version).

Here's the interesting part. If, within Max 2017, I save out the file, then open it in Max 2020, the PathDeformed object retains the properties and functionality of the 2017 version modifier. It's almost as if Autodesk kept the code for it, but hid it from the UI for reasons of backwards compatibility. (It's under a different name, too: the old was called "PathDeform" and the new is called "Path Deform.")

So as long as I merge that file into my Max 2020 project, I can copy the old PathDeform modifier and paste it onto the new grouped geometry and it works as intended! It's a little clunky, but not too bad, at least it works. I don't know whether it is a bug or not... Because if it's not, then the 2020 PathDeform is a major downgrade from 2017 despite some of the extra bells and whistles.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

domo.spaji — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 23:30:42 GMT

It would be better if you read answers when ask for something.

Go back few posts and you will find that I mention that update.

And we established that "Use pivot point" of the Path Deform object Space Modifier is not checked by default.

So by default you have option to use it same way like old version modifier.

No workarounds, stick to defaults - at least till you know what other options means.

If you are in haunt for bugs, good luck. The less you know - the better the chances.

Re: How to Path Deform a whole bunch of objects together?

zirnworks — Tue, 10 Mar 2020 00:00:03 GMT

@domo.spaj wrote:
It would be better if you read answers when ask for something.
Go back few posts and you will find that I mention that update.
And we established that "Use pivot point" of the Path Deform object Space Modifier is not checked by default.

So by default you have option to use it same way like old version modifier.

I did read that answer. I already tried checking "use pivot point" when selecting the modifier. It did not make a difference. I tried all the other options within the modifier itself already. I have done my due diligence and would appreciate having the benefit of the doubt.
I didn't have the ability to test out the older version of the modifier at the time you wrote that post, but read what @10DSpace said in Message 16 of 19, saying that "it doesn't help the situation that @zirnworks is having."

No workarounds, stick to defaults - at least till you know what other options means.
If you are in haunt for bugs, good luck. The less you know - the better the chances.

I would love to stick to the defaults, but can't do so if they don't work.

I just spoke with someone from a local Autodesk usergroup about this, who worked as an early tester and helped design its UI many years ago. He understands what's going on under the hood at a deeper level than the average user and thought it was likely a bug. This is why I floated that possibility here.