topic Re: Feedback about 3ds max in 3ds Max Forum

Feedback about 3ds max

Anonymous — Wed, 18 May 2016 20:09:35 GMT

You know what?

You from Autodesk are stupid.

You have a so POWERFUL 3d modeling software, I can say the BEST 3d modeling software out there.

It's at the TOP of the Autodesk revenue, it's preferred by millions and millions of users. It made your company so successful...

But what? It's Windows only.

I really don't understand the reason you keep not making it cross-platform.

If 3ds Max is a BEAST right now, how would it be if It were cross platform?

Think about it, for 3ds Max 2018!

(2018 -> 18 -> the year you become major. Would be a good occasion)

I have had the opportunity to try both 3ds Max and Maya.

What can I say?

I'm making my own game and I have to decide between 3ds Max and Maya.

I can't keep deciding and being confused forever.

I must take a decision!

3DS MAX PROS:

I like it's User Interface more than Maya
It has some tools and modifiers which are very comfortable and make the job easier (like Symmetry modifier)

3DS MAX CONS:

I find UV Mapping more difficult to achieve(it also requires a separate Modifier!)
It isn't cross-platform (it's Windows only software)
It leaks in completeness. It hasn't things that Maya has and could be required by a game dev (above all animation tools)
THIS IS THE WORST CONS OF 3DS MAX!!! ---> Will 3ds Max die next?

MAYA PROS:

It is cross-platform (available for every OS)
I find UV Mapping easier
It's complete: nHair, Soft Body Dynamics, Fur, Fuid Motion, muscle dynamics... and in 2017 it will probably have more high-poly sculpting tools
Better and more powerful tools for animations and rigging

MAYA CONS:

It leaks of modeling tools, where 3ds Max absolutely excels
It's not 3ds Max

Also, I heard Maya is preferred over Max by many game dev companies. But I wonder: as long as I can get the job done, why do you care about the software I use?

At the beginning I started with 3ds Max, and that was my first love.

I moved to Maya a little bit to adapt in both environments, but when I'm on Maya I always think at Max

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

AdrianWise8371 — Wed, 18 May 2016 22:28:31 GMT

So in your post you highlight where Maya is stornger than Max, where Max is stronger than Maya and one of you requests is Max to be multi platform....

You also point out that Max is "a beast" because it is so big, so powerful, has so mnay users and is Autodesks biggest product [in Media & Entertainment]

If i may i'll take you points one at a time.

You find UVW mapping more difficult, have you tried 2017? unwrapping UV in 2017 is so much quicker, it packs automatically and better, it supports multi-tile mapping now, it has symetry tools to speed up what you are unwrapping, in my opinion its the best feature of 2017.

It lacks animation tools, with MCG the number of new animations tools has grown rapidly, and the community are constantly writing more and more, the facebook group for MCG take requests as challenges and some of the best TD's in the industry are there developing and sharing what they create...

Its not Multi-Platform, mmm... this pops up a lot. Now you have said yourself you would like soem changes to Max, if the dev team were to compile a new version of Max for Mac how long do you think that would take? how many man hours would need to be spent rewriting Max for it to work on an eco system that is not as well established in the industry [industry not student population or hobbyists] whilst all that work was being done how many new features do you think would get developed while Max for Mac was being written and tested? do you not think that if Autodesk thought that there were enough users willing to purchase or needed Max for Mac that they would not Mandate that Max be 'ported' to Mac. I just dont think there is a business case for Max for Mac. one other point to make if you are a Mac user that wants to run Max, have you tried running Max on Windows on a Mac? you have two options a bootcamp windows install on your Mac and Paralell desktop Max runs just fine [ive done both] under both systems.

Now your Maya cons list is quite short, but significant, modelling tools in Maya are getting better but you are right they dont hold a candle to Max but you also say its not Max which sugggests you WANT to run Max but have a couple of issues, after over 20 years of running Max it would take something beyond sigificant to get me to switchfrom Max to something else so im right there with you buddy. Max is great its getting better with every addition Max is growing stronger and quickly...

Which brings me on to the last point, you said it yourself Max is a beast, its the number one product in the M&E division, it is second in Autodesks product portfolio to AutoCAD it ships in every Suite Autodesk sells, now ask youself is a multi billion dollar corporation going to stop developing and stop selling its number one product for visualisation, that is embedded in every other product they sell? Just imagine writing that email to all their customers that use Max with all their other products...

Dear sir/madame,

despite the fact that you have used 3DS Max for 20 years and it is integrated into you whole workflow we have decided to stop producing 3DS Max and will no longer ship it with your product, instead we will infuture ship you a copy of Maya becasue the internet say its better because it also runs on a Mac, we apologise for the inconvenience this will cause in changing how you work and the countless peopl you will need to retrain to learn to use Maya.

Sincerley

ADSK

If you care to read the comments on that article, [to which i admit i am familiar with as i contributed to them] you will find data from ADSK staff to backup my argument.

you sound like you a Max fan and want to use it, if you HAVE too have it on a MAc i have provided you with solutions, i can honestly say there is nothing holding you back!

double click that icon, build your game, you have the tools

Go Create something [with Max]

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

Anonymous — Thu, 19 May 2016 13:38:33 GMT

Thank you for paying attention to my post.

I've read a lot about AD trying to kill Max, I've read a lot about them trying to push up Maya for game development.

In fact, I don't really understand which one between the two would fit better for GAMES.

Maya has, as already mentioned, a lot of features really really useful for game development (like fluids, animation toolset ecc..)

Max seems to belong more to the architecture field.

I can use Maya as well as Max.

But, I don't know why, when I'm on Max my mind enjoys more the modeling process.

Oh and, by the way, I'm a Windows user. I just think at the worst: what if I got to change my OS?

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

AdrianWise8371 — Thu, 19 May 2016 13:49:01 GMT

Hey no problem, its nice to have a conversation about this instead of people ranting...

let me ask you a question, when was the last time you saw an advertisment for a Ferrari or Rolls Royce, Market Leaders dont need to advertise, Autodesk doesnt need to advertise Max EVERYONE uses it, AAA game studios, Huge VFX Studios like ILM & Blur etc and of course the AEC Industries {Automotive Engineering & Construction} Maya doesnt have that foothold in the Market and as such Autodesk has to Market Maya and Maya LT, Mayas strengths are in Character work and animation so thats what they advertise it based upon, which is why you see it for Games and VFX...

Forza 6 for XBox ONE was built in Max, Gears of War was built in Max, textured in Mudbox and animated in Maya, if you look at the VFX Breakdowns for films and games you'll see Max is just as prevalent as Maya in Games and Film....

Just curious why do you think you would ever HAVE to change OS? if you went to work in a Maya based studio i dont see why they would MAKE you use a Mac?

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

Anonymous — Thu, 19 May 2016 14:00:04 GMT

That's a problem.

What if I went to a studio where working on a Mac is required (hence, you have to use Maya) ?

Also I don't like very much what you just said, which is just the truth though for many companies: model in Max, sculpt in Mudbox, animate in Maya

I'm a single modeler. I can't afford to buy all those 3 softwares.

I'm looking for a software which is able to do well both modeling and animation.

Let's put apart the Sculpting software, which openly requires a specialized third party software (like Mudbox or ZBrush).

Maya 2017, as I heard, will ALSO include a bit of sculpting.

So you see, If I were just another person I'd have gone with Maya.

But I like the 3ds max as it looks.

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

Ihno — Thu, 19 May 2016 15:36:45 GMT

gedamial schrieb:

In fact, I don't really understand which one between the two would fit better for GAMES.

Maya has, as already mentioned, a lot of features really really useful for game development (like fluids, animation toolset ecc..)

Wait... fluids in games?? Presmulated in a 3D package?? Where have you seen that?
In my experience fluids are the last thing you'll want to export to a game engine, I'm not even shure if one is able to do that.
They have tons of polys which are dynamically changing in every frame, that is truly someting you wont want to throw at a realtime engine.
In the next view jears I believe we'll gonna see fluids in realtime engines that are simulated also in realtime. See Nvidea Flameworks/PhysX
But the 3d package will have nothing to do with that.

I think Max is better for the most things because of its stack based modeling, so you can model your all your LODs and a super highpoly version for map backing on one object. But that is only my opinion.
If your main task will be character animation you'll propably be better advised to use Maya.
In the end its a matter of taste.

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

Anonymous — Thu, 19 May 2016 17:07:21 GMT

Yes but on the other hand I feel like Max is more vulnerable, more buggy than Maya.

Also the fact you need to open it as Administrator to make changes take effect is pretty annoying.

Still, I find UV mapping very difficult to achieve on Max but still I miss Max's modeling toolset when I'm on Maya.

It's a double edged sword.

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

Ihno — Thu, 19 May 2016 20:01:11 GMT

I don't ever got my hands on Maya, so i really cannot tell anything about its performance and stability.
But looking in the Maya forum often feels like looking in the 3Ds Max forum.
Tons of pissed users talking about bugs and waving there fingers at AD.
Well, i know.
The most users which are posting here are in trouble with ther deadlines or just annoyed fom the 1000th crash and it can get emotional in such siturations.

But that also means that Maya can be a world of pain too.
Just my interpretation 😉

You sound like you already got a bit experience with Maya.
So you should be able to deside.
And you should choose the software which ever makes you fast.
So what will be your main tasks?

Back to your initial post:
3DS Max sells out Maya by about 11/1 they won't gonna slaughter their cash cow 🙂
And Max got a new game exporter in the 2016 Extension. So the game devs are not ignored.
Also they had put some work in their unwarb uvw modifier.
I think you could take that as a proof that max wouldn't be a dead end for you.

Re: Feedback about 3ds max

Anonymous — Thu, 19 May 2016 21:09:33 GMT

Yes I have used both Max and Maya.

Still, as I was saying before, having a software which can be easily ported to every OS is more flexible.

Also, I find Maya texturing way easier and faster than Max.

Of course that's just the way I feel with Maya texturing. The average Max user would claim the opposite indeed.

But you know... I can't really explain why I prefer Max.

When I apply, for example, the Turbosmooth modifier on a model, the way the final object looks like is fantastic, is amazing.

Maybe because I'm on windows and it uses DirectX, which is windows.