topic Re: Application Error (Max 2017) in 3ds Max Forum

Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 18:00:19 GMT

Hi. I have a problem that others seem to have had in the past.

When opening a max file, I get an application error. Max then has to close. Before anyone says it's a corrupt file, it isn't.

It's an evermotion file.... In fact, it can be any file. These files work fine on other systems in the office.

Now, to the really, really annoying bit.

I've had this problem for weeks. Eventually, for some random reason, it'd work fine.

Last week I was using Win7 but have since done a fresh install of my system and installed Win10.

Max has been fine until a couple of hours ago and I'm now getting this issue again. This means I can't work and meet deadlines if I can't even open a scene.

Please, can anyone help me?

Thanks,

Sean

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:17:43 GMT

I also made the same post on CGTalk.

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MGernot replied:

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Difficult if it`s completely random.Maybe it`s a hardware related problem. Did you check for faulty RAM? Graphic Drivers up to date? Try a different graphics mode, like Direct3D or OpenGL.

Perhaps an installed plugin or script that interferes and is specific to your workstation?

Other suggestion is, to go to the AREA 3dsmax forum and ask Alfred.DeFlaminis to take a look at your crash dumps.In case you sent them and provided an email address.

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MY REPLY

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The issue is frustrating enough but the complete randomness of it makes it worse.

I've just logged onto the office system and the scene has loaded.

Yet earlier I was showing people and 9/10 times it crashed.

This seems to be a known issue but no guaranteed fix.

I saw a video where someone seems to fix it by having max closed and renaming the '2017 - 64bit' in:

AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax

Max then makes a new one

I might give that a try.

RAM is testing fine, I updated my GFX card yesterday. I switched to Nitrous D3D 9 (from v11) earlier.

I'll try the others too.

Also, everyone has the same plugins, and same versions.

In fact, as I've done a clean OS install, I'm probably better off script wise than the rest. So don't think that's the cause.

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 22:50:18 GMT

Hello @sean and welcome to the community,

I sense your urgency here, so I'm going to be pretty expansive in my ideas and suggestions. First, I want to recommend that the next time it crashes that you please input your email address into the CER report (or note the report number) which will allow me to look up your information directly. This does give me a bit more to go on, but for the time being I will suggest a few other things.

First, the folder you wanted to rename (ENU) is located as shown below: (You can also find information about resetting settings here.)

C:\Users\%username%\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\2017 - 64bit

If this is happening on a machine with a fresh installation of W10 but also happened on W7, we can rule out standard OS config issues for the most part, or at least, save them for last. Do you have any peripherals attached to your machine? (Wacom tablets, 3D mouse, USB Bat Signals, anything?) If so, please try to unplug it and see if that helps. I'm thinking you may have a conflict with another part inside your system.

Can you please tell me a bit about your graphics hardware? Do you have multiple cards, and if so, are they the same model? What is the model of the graphics card, please?

Do you see anything suspicious in your event viewer logs? (Failing hard drive, .Net or UCRTBASE.DLL issues, etc.) Are these files being opened over a network or locally? If over a network, do you have similar issues if opening locally? Also, have you done all the windows updates you can at this point? If not, please do.

The fact that it's seemingly random points toward a cause outside of Max. When Max is misbehaving, it's pretty consistently misbehaving. I have seen some strange stability issues when there are 2 GPU's that are vastly different makes and models. (Example 970 and an old 650) I've seen this when there are RAM mismatches, but you've already tested RAM so we can discount that. I have also seen this happen when a seemingly random component in the machine has an improper or generic driver installed. For example, I had a DVD drive once that was for W2K but when I moved to W7 it had an IRQ Conflict with my GPU and caused me no end to grief until I figured it out. Lastly, if you are running a dongle of sorts (like Wibu for Vray) it may be that the drivers for it are not installed correctly. Do you use a dongle for any reason?

Thanks for the answers to those questions, the CER email address sending, and any other information you can give me. I appreciate it.

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 22:57:46 GMT

Hello @sean,

I did another search in the crash reports and I see two errors in here based on your submitted reports. The first was fixed with SP2, so I do wonder which version of the service packs/updates you are running. Is it possible that your Max version is unpatched?

The second error seems related to the first and might point toward workspaces. Do you use custom workspaces in 3ds Max? The strange thing is we have no crash reports of this error post SP2. The evidence seems to suggest you are on SP1 or on the unpatched version. Would you please confirm your current SP for me? Thanks very much!

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 23:07:34 GMT

Hello @sean,

I have received your PM's, thank you for that. We're in some kinda sync here as I type a response and your message had all that info in it! Nice!

Each Service Pack / Update includes all the patches before it. So you don't need to install Sp1, then Sp2, then Sp3, etc. You can jump straight to Update 1.1 security fix and that should cover all the previous installations. You can do them in order if you want to though.

To answer the questions in your 2nd message, I do believe that there were too many requests at the same time for the adlm service, so it panicked. If you space out the openings of Max a little bit, this should do it.

To answer the second question, Forest pack has two options for importing. The default is import, and the second option is XRef. (Without Silentium script, Xref is a pain but with that script it's a nice option. Keeps your file size very small and autobacks save quickly. Some users have issues with Xrefs created in older versions but if it was created in 2017 I have seen no issues in my viz work.) If a 2.1 GB file is 1.9 GB of trees, it may be worth making proxies out of them or using the XRef option.

There is no file size limit per se, but once a scene gets to about 4gb it's really painful to work in and there are almost definitely some things that can be done to minimize the problems there. For example, a simple garbage cleanup can help in those big scenes. Please let me know if the SP helps with your issue, I do want to help in any way possible.

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 00:11:14 GMT

Thanks for the replies. This will probably be a long one. Hope there's enough space on the internet

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Do you have any peripherals attached to your machine? (Wacom tablets, 3D mouse, USB Bat Signals, anything?)

I have a lead that came with my monitor. It goes from the monitor into USB. This makes it possible to use the USB ports on the monitor.

I either have the mouse or keyboard plugged in the monitor (because its lead was too short). The other device (mouse or keyboard) I have plugged into the system.

Right, at this point I should say that I do have a system that's caused me some headaches. Last year the mouse and/or keyboard would stop working at random intervals. I had to swap the ports they were using. It got to a point where even swapping didn't help and only a restart would. This issue seemed to sort itself out and I haven't had the problem for ages.

Also, another annoyance. Something new I'm getting Win10. This seems to happen between 2 & 3:30pm....... My mouse, keyboard and then monitors stop working. Monitors go into standby. Sound works for a while but then goes weird. I think the only way I've been able to fix this is to force a restart. I don't think it restarts by itself. As it happens in the afternoon, I don't have the time to see if it self restarts. I don't get a BSoD.

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The system has 1x GFX card. It's a GeForce GTX 770

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I can't begin to understand what I'm seeing in the event viewer. Here it is, if you can take a look.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7680428/ST_eventViewer.zip

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but you've already tested RAM so we can discount that

Well, I have Speccy installed and all of the RAM is the same type and not giving warnings.

Lastly, if you are running a dongle of sorts (like Wibu for Vray) it may be that the drivers for it are not installed correctly. Do you use a dongle for any reason?

My boss has the dongle for Vray in his system. I don't have one.

Updating Max

I had just finished updated them one by one when I saw your message. I'm now up to date. I hadn't installed any updates after installing Win10

AppData

I've kept the 2017_x64bit folder that Max created when I first ran it (after installing Win10) but renamed it. Max created a new folder in there so I'm seeing how that one goes.

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I'll give Silentium a try, thanks for the tip. Yeah, I don't think we're using ForestPack the best way in the office. Thanks for the other Max info at the end of your last post.

Many thanks again.

Sean

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 00:27:00 GMT

Hi @sean!

Thanks for the information. I had typed that before I had the first crash report so I think actually all your problems here (at least with the crash logs as I see them) are resolved with an update/service pack. Can you please try that and if it fails we'll come back to the system investigation? Thanks so much! I should have asked about it in my first post, but the logs are clear about the 2 errors you were getting and that they were resolved post SP2.

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 00:34:00 GMT

Thanks.

I hope I NEVER have to speak to you again

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 00:45:18 GMT

Haha! Thanks @sean!

If it does work, please mark the post that helped with "accept as solution" and I swear, except for thanking you for doing that, I won't ever bother you again.

Thanks for your great communication and attitude!

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 09:25:32 GMT

Hi again @Alfred.DeFlaminis

So much for NEVER speaking again.

This may be an unrelated issue but I haven't had it before. Can you take a look at CER_142599597 ? I sent it at 9:20am GMT .

I've made a post on the Forest Pack forum. If iToo ask for the crash report, is there a way I can send it to them? Are they stored on my system.

Sorry to be a nuisance.

Sean

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 20:09:48 GMT

Hello @sean,

Well, we tried! Are the files opening without crashing now? Please note you are never a nuisance! I am happy to help in any way possible.

Ok, on to this latest crash report. It's listed as caused by forestpack. Probably just needs an update or something, iToo is pretty great about releasing regular updates. (Love those guys.)

I have some information about crash dumps for you here.

On my machine, my dump files are located at:

Minidump (3dsmax_minidump.dmp): C:\Users\%username%\AppData\Local\Temp

CrashDumps (3dsmax.exe.XXXX.dmp): C:\Users\%username%\AppData\Local\CrashDumps

I can attach your minidump, but I cannot attach the other elements of the crash report due to internal policies, I hope that's ok. Once you have it I can delete the attachment if you'd like from this message.

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 21:57:43 GMT

Hi, thanks.

Thanks for the report, I'll send it to iToo. They actually asked for it. I'll download it when I get home. Delete it later if you think it's best. I don't mind either way. Well, I haven't had the crash since.

I don't doubt your confidence that it's fixed but I'm known in the office as having the worst luck in the world. So, I'm always anticipating things will go to pot eventually. Not the best way to see life, I know.

I'm sure I had updated max when I was on Win7. But we'll see how it goes.

Anyway, no application error boxes. However, I was in my scene earlier and it kept freezing. It didn't crash/close. This happened a couple of times in the scene. I left it open (not responding) in the hope it'd wake up but it didn't.

It seemed to be an evermotion tree I'd brought in because I savedselected the tree and it did it in its own scene. Exporting as an fbx and importing it seems to have helped.

Anyway...... Thanks for looking at the crash file.

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:55:14 GMT

Thanks for the update @sean.

If you're working with a lot of heavy geo, I would revert to DX9. Yes you lose some viewport features that likely won't work quickly anyway with a zillion evermotion trees hanging out.

Planning for eventualities or being careful in life isn't negative, it's smart. The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Please let me know if you have any problems.

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 07:42:32 GMT

Me again, yay.

When you have a sec, can you check the crash report I sent at about 5am (yes, been awake for 24hrs now). When Chrome opened and went to the autodesk site, it didn't seem to give a CER #.

I got the issue when rendering with distributed rendering.

It was rendering for a while. I could see the other systems being added. I'm not sure if it actually started rendering with them because I fell asleep with my head on my desk.

When I sent the crash I tried again. I woke up earlier and it had rendered 60% of the final pass but had stopped, but not crashed.

I put another render on with dist rendering turned off and it rendered fine.

Thanks

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:45:11 GMT

Hello @sean,

The error seems to have come from backburner, likely the connection was lost or interrupted. Does this affect all DR jobs? Which renderer? Thanks!

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 19:11:02 GMT

Hi. Sorry for not replying earlier. I didn't have an email notification this time.

I've since done more renders (Vray) with all the offices systems added and I haven't had an issue since. I found out the day after it happened that a colleague was exporting an Unreal animation. His spawner was turned on but he was using max CPU and/or RAM.

He said he Max had crashed his end. Maybe that was the cause, I'm not sure.

Thanks

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:38:31 GMT

Hello @sean,

Interesting, thanks for the update. So perhaps it was already working on something and choked on the DR portion, which made the entire render fail. I've never seen that happen but I'll keep it in my bag of information for the future. Thank you!

Are your files opening fine now otherwise?

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

sean — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:43:49 GMT

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

Yes, I haven't had an issue since, touch wood (or MDF). Should I mark this topic as being solved?

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:31:13 GMT

Hello @sean,

You can if you want, but I see no harm in sitting on it a few days to make sure you're good. I'll check back in a day or two and see how it's going! Thanks!

Best Regards,

Re: Application Error (Max 2017)

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 21:00:59 GMT

Hello @sean,

Just following up! If you're are able to open your files without issue, you can feel free to mark whichever post helped with that. If not, I'll happily do it tomorrow. Hope it's all going well!

Best Regards,