topic Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render in 3ds Max Forum

Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

DGuillen-BD — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:08:08 GMT

I am having an issue where I am attempting to animate the visibility of objects for an animation. The problem is that when the visibility of the object is set to 0.0 the object still renders. I have changed the properties to be by layer and also attempted using curve editor and adding a visibility track still to no avail, the objects still render as normal without being opaque. Please help!!!

I have also attempted changing the renderer from ART to Mental Ray and still nothing! Screencap is from the render in progress, the block shown mid left is supposed to be at about 0.2 visibility and still renders as 1.0

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

laurent_gibert — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:27:15 GMT

Hi @DGuillen-BD,

Not every renderer leverage the object properties the same way, or sometimes like you experienced it, at all. If you had used scanline, you would have seen the transparency behaving the way you expected. In order to get a more consistent experience across renderers, you should instead use transparency capabilities from the material assigned to your object.

For example, if you use a physical material and a glass template, you'll get transparency more consistent across your renderers.

Regards,

Laurent

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:43:36 GMT

The object's properties should be set "By Object". Perhaps this video I did several years ago will help.

https://youtu.be/fY3pR0bZlUI

Lee

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

DGuillen-BD — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:05:44 GMT

Lee,

thank you for the suggestion but after following to the T i still have the objects rendering fully visible. Any other ideas? This is getting frustrating!

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 01:54:04 GMT

The problem may be the ART Renderer. Try Mental Rays or anything else. I have found the ART Renderer to be extremely frustrating with little control.

Can you post the file with only the object you want to make invisible and perhaps a couple of other object for reference (plus your lighting)? I will take a look at it.

Lee

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 21:27:11 GMT

Hello @DGuillen-BD,

@laurent_gibert's post is very spot on here. The standard workflow is to animate the material properties over the object properties for this type of operation. You may get it working on the object level only to find that the shadows aren't obeying the object visibility, depending on your renderer. Did you have any luck with animating the material opacity?

Best Regards,

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 01:45:35 GMT

The ART Renderer does not seem to consider the Visibility Track. Although animating opacity may make the object disappear it still produces artifacts such as shadows that indicated the presence of the object. If the OP wants to use the ART renderer and if all that is needed is to instantaneously make an object disappear/appear then I would consider using a step function to instantaneously move the object out of view.

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 16:33:04 GMT

Hello @leeminardi,

If the object intersects the ground plane you'll see an artifact, but if you move it up a tiny bit it should be fine. I've attached a simple test using the cutout slot and a color map. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the artifacts.

Best Regards,

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:23:43 GMT

Hi @Alfred.DeFlaminis

Moving the object off the ground plane helps but there is still the potential for artifacts due to the presence of the "invisible" (due to a black cutout map) object.

The image below shows two renders of your two cylinders. The image at left uses the cutout map method while the image at right has the cylinder completely removed from the scene. There are subtle differences which may become more pronounced depending on lighting and viewing angle.

BTW, what causes the white circle near the center of the scene?

I still think the best strategy is to use a renderer that supports a visibility track or move an object out of view when it needs to become invisible.

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 22:40:54 GMT

Hello @leeminardi,

I must admit I'm not seeing the difference except on the highlight against the wall. Would you mind attaching the scene so I can play around with it? Thanks!

The circle is a highlight based on the IOR of the material. It's basically the reflection of the light.

Best Regards,

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 00:34:51 GMT

Yes, the IOR is handled differently for the two images. I've attached the file which was the file you posted but I added a background wall. Darker colors emphasize the reflection issue. Just hide the cylinder on the left to make a comparison render.

Another disadvantage of the cutout method for controlling visibility as compared to using a visibility track is that you cannot dynamically see an object change its visibility when you scrub the time slider. I think the ART Renderer should be enhanced to support a visibility track and the exclusion of lights by object properties.

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

PROH — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 01:24:36 GMT

Hi. As someone posted ealier, ART isn't the only renderer ignoring visibility steps between 0 and 1, along with other object properties. So using opacity is sometimes the only solution. Depending on the renderer used, this gives us some other problems like:

- in situation where the opacity/transparency channel is already used

- when we are dealing with glossy/reflective materials

- when animating the opacity fade in one material, and then needs to change to another material, you have to do the animation again

- if more object shares a material, but only some of them needs to fade, you'll have to make copies of the first material and remember to duplicate each and every material change

... and many more

So therefore the better solution is, to use a blend material, where the base is an instanced copy of the opaque material, and the blend-material is an invisible material (0 diffuse, 0 reflection, full refraction with IOR 1 and full transparency). Now you can animate the blend value, and change the base-material without redoing the animation. + any changes made in the "master" material will be carried on to the instance.

Hope it helps

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:32:23 GMT

Hello @leeminardi,

I see the artifact now. I think @PROH's idea of a blend material is great and it might be the best option here. I would suggest a Feature Request if you want the visibility track to support those objects in the ART renderer.

Keep in mind the point of ART was to keep things simple. The lack of rendering options and advanced features is sort of a selling point.

Best Regards,

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 22:23:29 GMT

Hello @Alfred.DeFlaminis

I appreciate the goal of ART is to keep things simple. It is probably a very good choice for static scenes of “real world” objects. It isn’t good for dynamically changing visibility or for scenes where you need to fudge geometry scale (e.g., images of a space station above earth). The blended material technique suggested by @proh is a good solution if there are a limited number of objects involved. For more than a few objects the inability to dynamically see the changing visibility in the editor is a problem. I think it would be helpful to include some of the key features NOT addressed in the ART Renderer (i.e., its limitations) in the product description. This would make its use more efficient.

Thank you,

Lee

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 23:04:18 GMT

I think you raise some good points @leeminardi, you're an astute individual. The developers are really implementing a lot of user Feature Requests lately (and in the future) so please submit a request. This has a good chance to be addressed in a future update. If you do, I'll happily vote on it myself if you post a link in this thread.

Best Regards,

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 20:18:37 GMT

Thank you for the compliment. I have added the ART Renderer enhancement suggestions to the 3ds Max Ideas page.

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 22:37:39 GMT

Hello @leeminardi,

Would you mind posting the link here so that anyone else who finds this thread can easily vote on your idea, please? I tried to find it but I couldn't. I'll vote myself. Thanks!

Best Regards,

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

leeminardi — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 21:27:27 GMT

I posted it at the 3ds Max Ideas page. Is there a better place?

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-ideas/art-renderer-enhancements-visibility-light-exclusion/idi-p/7516305

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

Alfred.DeFlaminis — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 21:28:28 GMT

Hello @leeminardi,

That's the best place for ideas and feature requests, thanks very much for posting. I updated your link to take people directly to your idea so that it's easier for them to vote on it. Hope that's ok and thanks again for posting the link! Voted!

Best Regards,

Re: Object Properties Visibility not Controlling Render

gmote — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 11:50:23 GMT

I just ran into this problem too. I'm using ARNOLD renderer. Could turn off visibility in Scanline and Mental Ray and the object wouldn't render. But with ART and ARNOLD they objects render. I tried unchecking "Renderable" and the object doesn't render but I haven't been able to key frame that. Is there a way to key frame the Object Property, "Renderable", on/off?

PS: I used the link provided to add ARNOLD visibility issue to feature requests.