topic Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links. in The Community Room

thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

sheniel — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:55:32 GMT

hi all

the portfolio i manage has maybe 10-15 hospital buildings, almost all are in DWG currently.

and now we are taking them up to 3D. some contractors have modelled portions of a floor or a floor as a whole in revit. but full file isnt set up for any building.

the initial test for set up was an attempt to get these floors modelled individually and then linked in to make a building. this is because of two reasons, previous Project managers are used to dealing with on digital dwg for a floor.

and in this particular business model generally the refurbs are only within the one floor. like a mall changing tenants and doing refurb.

i see this as an issue for these reasons:

- one on site with 5 buildings will now have 60 Arch files to have every level in .rvt

- standards are harder to manage,

- contractor may work on the same thing and create two models (double handling)

- nested links dont show up in bim so site file will be empty.

- harder to keep track of file versions and design collaboration on BIM 360.

but it has some advantages

- contractor gets less information so only works on the scope.

- when multiple contractors are working on the same file, i would be using worksets to make sure no one deletes each others stuff - wont be needed anymore. so smaller learning curve.

- still aligned with the classic autodesk systems so easier for current PMs to pick it up.

i have 90% made up my mind to have a whole building and make typical to a construction environment.

i am posting here to hear from devils advocates, supporters, any experiences or any other comment you have.

before i implement is as a whole.

happy to ad more to this.

thanks

Sheniel .

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

RobDraw — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 21:13:38 GMT

Revit "wants" a single model. As long as the models perform well, that is the way to go for a number of reasons. The main one being that a limited amount of information flows through a link. Worksets can be used to compartmentalize a building and can be used to improve performance on larger models.

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

sheniel — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 21:22:43 GMT

thanks Rob, My thoughts exactly. this answer further supports my proposed Strategy.

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

RobDraw — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 21:30:32 GMT

There are other considerations, though. This sounds like a facilities management type of thing with ongoing renovations in various areas. These projects should be broken out and worked on separated from the master models and then be brought back into the master models as existing as-built conditions. Everything in the masters should be existing and reflect the current state of the building once the projects are done.

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

sheniel — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 21:46:47 GMT

yeah i like the idea of working outside the model for some instance. generally if the refurb is floor wide or doing significant changes. more often it is an update of spatial layout. or updating mech equipment , which revise the plinth footprint or restructure the services around it.

its connect to a hospital building as well. so yore correct lots of consideration. currently still early days, proposal writing phase.

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

Mistress0fTheDorkness — Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:41:01 GMT

Definitely a good point Rob. From the FM side, renos are always separate files, archived as-is, then merged selectively into the working master after completion and verification.

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Mar 2021 20:03:20 GMT

dose your team have a role that does the merging after project? or left to the contractor?
we are purchasing a lidar scanner to scan during construction and model asbuilt from the scans.

also what Fm systems are you using? BIM 360 or another?
asking to see how this type of modelling changes the set up.

thanks
sheniel

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

Mistress0fTheDorkness — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 02:36:48 GMT

I've spent most of my career on the owner's side, and I would never let a contractor touch my master file, that was internal only.

... although, I say that... in my years as an IWMS consultant, I have been a subcontractor who has merged changed areas into the facility owner's master myself. They did not have their design team do it. (the changes came after I was initially contracted to tidy up the turnover into a master file for new buildings that I connected into their CAFM system, changes post-occupancy, they passed on to me because their in-house resource was still getting up to speed on other aspects of the facility. Changes after that? Handled by the in-house resource.)

I've worked with Revit in ARCHIBUS and FM:Interact (FMS).

Haven't used BIM360 Ops yet myself, nor internal 3d scanning (though I was PM on a project with some GPR for utilities scanning... a little bit different subject, though).

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

sheniel — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:09:36 GMT

thanks for the reply.

Where i am the situation is much the same except i am not a contractor but directly employed by the Hospital.
the full portfolio is about 160 buildings with 10-15 on the main site and other across the land, ultimately as you say, a design team will be required. i am good with Revit but not that good.

Whilst scary, i want to set up a master file that can be worked on in the cloud by consultants. Tied down by work sets and strict modelling standards.
this (projects in master file) file is reviewed by in house design team through out its design and build phase, once handed over it'll be managed by the in house team.

3D scans are my first step, BLK2GO scanners to get point cloud in busy hospital areas. capture > model> associate data. Will be doing only arch for one building first. This will be our first sample for whats possible. Then a request for resources.

as for the assets, BIM 360 is the one i know that works through and through with revit model and 3d location of assets. doing research to find alternatives for Proposal and case studies. fell free to tell me about other FM systems that may work better.

thanks
sheniel

Re: thoughts on file set up single vs multiple links.

Mistress0fTheDorkness — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 19:37:17 GMT

Wow! You certainly have quite the task ahead of you! I am beginning to understand.

Autodesk doesn't have an FM-specific forum anymore, but they do link over to the AUGI one in the old space:

https://www.augi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?519-Facilities-Management-In-Practice

I'm glad you can take this approach. I always ended up with whatever models I got after handover and had to change them myself to match the master... as you can imagine, there was always a backlog, between that and my other duties.

I would love to hear more about your process and progress as you move through this.

As I said, i've only directly used Revit with ARCHIBUS and FMS. They are really robust programs, that do soooooo much. There were irritants and bugs along the way with both, but the software developers are willing to listen to the business partners when they report bugs, and they get resolved. I'm a fan of both platforms, and also repeatedly frustrated by both platforms. lol. They are not cheap, though. Very huge setup costs and time, and need a business partner to work with you.