topic Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal in Fusion 360 Preview Functionality

My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 14:07:58 GMT

Hi all,

After some hours using sheet metal in Fusion 360, I'm writing down my impressions; some of that are already been view from other users.

1. K factor: it seems impossible to change, but changing it is a MUST.

2. Flange with symmetrical edge relief: very good job and good workflow! But, is it possible to change the shape and the dimensions of the relief? Good indeed that you can extend the lenght of the flange using symmetrical and two side.

3. Export in dxf the entire drawing, complete with all the views needed to make the part: this is a MUST also.

4. Fold/Unfold: good job. It's simple to unfold, make holes and shaped cuts and then re-fold the part with hole exactly on the bend.

5. Convert to sheet metal: this is a MUST (I've not understood if present). When you have modeled a rough block with the shape of your part, you should be able to convert it to a sheet metal part for unfolding. If you import a part form other systems, also, you should be able to convert it.

This is only the first impressions and I'm not sure if you have already addressed them.

Thank you

At the next post!

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

promm — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 18:40:27 GMT

@Anonymous,

Thank you for your feedback, I have provided comments in blue below.

1. K factor: it seems impossible to change, but changing it is a MUST.

Editing the K-Factor in the rules will be a part of the initial release, the team is finishing up work on this as I speak.

Based off of customer feedback we are improving the discoverability and offset functionality of a flag width. To change the shape you will have to do a sketch with an extrude or modify using press/pull, move and or extrude face.

3. Export in dxf the entire drawing, complete with all the views needed to make the part: this is a MUST also.

Can you give more details about this? Do you manufacture your own sheet metal part or send them off to be made? I am working with a team to discover how customers will be using their finished sheet metal designs.

4. Fold/Unfold: good job. It's simple to unfold, make holes and shaped cuts and then re-fold the part with hole exactly on the bend.

Convert will be the third workflow I have the team work on. The first release targets bent flange forms. Next will be the reuse of other CAD sheet metal models and then convert.

This is only the first impressions and I'm not sure if you have already addressed them.

Please continue to provide feedback as you use sheet metal

Thank you,

Mike Prom

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:59:19 GMT

Hi Mike.

Thanks for the reply.

Regarding points:

Ok. This is ok. Now we can as you describe for sure but when the development goes ahead, it's important to add the capability of changing the relief dimensions and shape: I'm thinking about adding some dropdown menus in the parameters popup. Something more precise and linked to that particular part and not general as it's now. Hope you can understand what I mean.

For all bend, sould be possible to change its parameter. As you can see below, it's possible to change the reliefs.

3. Export in dxf the entire drawing, complete with all the views needed to make the part: this is a MUST also.

Yes, please see the dxf attached. My drawing contains unfolded view and folded views with the dimensions and annotations for the makers. And, also, a table with the threaded pins; all in unique dxf. I send to an external service that make the part for me: they cuts, bends, welds and paints all my parts and I can, so, receive a complete object exactly like my drawing. In the past I used punch and laser cut and I directly put the unfolded into the machine software. Of course, first of all, I had to delete all che dimensions and annotations.

TO HAVE A DXF OUT of the whole drawing is the more important thing. Several services does not use dwgs, yet! They receive the drawings and then copy and past the only unfolded pattern into laser cut or punch software!

Convert will be the third workflow I have the team work on. The first release targets bent flange forms. Next will be the reuse of other CAD sheet metal models and then convert.

Good thing!

At the next impressions.

Regards

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 07:29:39 GMT

Hi all,

other suggestions about relief, could be the followings

About the k-factor.

Make a panel, activated at the creation moment and always available (with a button like the rules) with the sheet metal characteristics where you can change all the parameters, including thickness, bend radius and K.

About the reliefs:

When you click on a relief, a popup appears and you can choose the right type and its parameters.

Best regards

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

promm — Fri, 07 Apr 2017 03:56:52 GMT

@Anonymous,

My apologies, for some reason I misunderstood your question about but cut reliefs. In the next update, you will see an enhancement to our rules where you can change the relief type and dimensions.

You also commented again about the shape. I assume you are referring to edit option inside of SWX where you can edit the flange sketch. For our first release this will be a additional step with a sketch and extrude to change the geometry.

Cheers,

Mike Prom

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Apr 2017 16:44:19 GMT

Don't worry Mike and many thanks.

Straight, tear and round are already present on my installation.

Yes right, but actually SWX can't edit the flange relief sketches: you can choose what type of relief and its dimensions, but you can do this for each flange separately. In Fusion, instead, you can't but you have to set up the unique relief for all the flanges in the component.

It should be great if each flange could have its own type of reliefs. That you see in the image is SPACECLAIM, not solidworks, but it's the same also in this other cad system.

Thanks

Regards

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 23:25:05 GMT

Just building on what Marco is describing, yes, being able to modify reliefs on the fly is a big deal for me too.

I also wanted to add a few more things as I have started to dig into sheet metal. First, thanks Mike and all for creating this workspace! It's been fun to work in and as usual with Fusion pretty intuitive. I just wanted to mention a few things I tend to do a lot in sheet metal and a few discoveries in the workspace.

This kludgy part above, just shows features I use all the time. I've built parts in SW, CATIA and Creo and they all have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm glad you have a way of making a flange, but in Creo for example you can describe a flange shape at least two ways; from a sketch parallel to the flange ( let's you do custom flat shapes easily) or perpendicular to the flange (lets you do multi staged jogs, super handy).

Embosing...I can't say more about how muchh I do this in parts. Many parts I design need to interact with plastics and I need to have coined areas to avoid compressing / cracking plastic with fasteners. Many vendors I deal with have standard or OTS CAD form tools that they will email me for SW for example to make it easier on me to build my parts.
Lances: Give you the ability to move fasteners, like PEMs out of plane when you run out of space.
Pierce, Tap and Half Sheers; Pierce tap for high production allows not using PEMs and Half sheers for datuming parts to one another, again two important features.

In any case, I'm super glad you're working on sheetmetal, I just wanted to build on what Marco was saying and point out that there are other side features besides flanges that might be worth looking at as you release this workspace.

The last thing I wanted to say was that I did discover something pretty cool and was wondering if this was intended.

So, I was trying to make a lance, and I thought, " I wonder how much like push/ pull, a flange could be?"

I first cut a hole thru a plate.

Then I put in a 45 degree-ish flange

Then added another

Then pulled out a flange from the other end

When I pulled out a flange from the other side and stretched it, it actually connected to the other end when the ends touched making a lance! Crazy, right?

Well, sorry for the long winded post. Keep up the great work. Cheers.

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 06:13:37 GMT

Thanks a lot, Jeff, for the complete explanation... more exhaustive than mine. 🙂

Regarding the lance you made: ok the shape is correct for sure, but F360, I'm sure (I've not tested it yet) can't develop the sheet metal for cutting. If it can, there is something wrong.

Anyway yes, those are all features absolutely needed by a user in a cad program for sheet metal, but FIRSTLY you MUST be able to change the K factor, otherwise nobody can put a correct flat pattern under a laser cutter.

regards!

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

promm — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 23:18:04 GMT

@Anonymous,

The plan is to put feature overrides in the Flange dialog box similar to the way that we have bend overrides. This would all you to override on a per feature basis. Would this be enough control?

Thank you

Mike Prom

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 16:22:31 GMT

Hi Mike,

yes, good idea.

Adding that ovveride could be useful but, as for relief parameters, it should be the same also for other controls.

I'm doing something to show to you. Please wait for me.

Thank you

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

promm — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:45:35 GMT

@Anonymous,

Thank you for your feedback. I added some notes to the image you shared and like you notes about using press/pull, along with other Fusion tools. I have heard this for a large amount of the preview users and intend on enhancing them so that they follow the sheet metal rules after our initial release. I also wanted to let you know that properties such as the K-Factor will be editable for the release, the limitation was due to the fatten feature not being complete yet

Cheers,

Mike Prom

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 07:00:32 GMT

Dear Mike,

here you can find what I would like to have in the next release of the SM module.

Moreover:

1. This dialog

2. The K factor changing in the general preferences

3. The possibility to export in dxf a complete drawing (flat pattern and view of the finished part)

4. Convert parts to sheet metal

That points could make the module as a starting point for production purposes. Please see the dxf attached (that is a drawing for production).

Other features will come in the future, for sure (point 4 on the list), but with that, Fusion 360 can be used from the mass as production cad for sheet metal.

Hope this helps

Thank you

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:23:12 GMT

Hi Mike,

I'm writing about the hem feature:

Oddly it could be unfolded even if it's not a sheet metal feature: that's great!

But the unfolded pattern is uncorrect due to the wrong k factor and wrong bend angle: beside the k factor, the unfolded pattern it's not only a geometric matter, so it's impossible to achieve the correct flat pattern using lines and arcs... it's got to be a unfolding engine under that feature.

I think it's right to add a real HEM feature.

My two cents.

Bye

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

promm — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:07:41 GMT

@Anonymous,

Unfold and fold is our solution to cutting across bends. When we release flatten the K-Factor will be taken into account and you will get accurate results. I appreciate all your feedback and I am excited to get your response once flatten is out.

Cheers,

Mike Prom

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 09:59:00 GMT

Hi Mike,

I'm excited, too 🙂

Awaiting for good news! Have you got an idea of when a new release will come?

Thanks

Marco

Re: My opinions on Sheetmetal

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:38:19 GMT

Hi Mike,

I've just upgraded to the new version and I found very very good new fetures like changing capability about overrides: that's great. I don't know F360 enough to say if the other enhancement (besides the sheet metal tools) are awesome or not but I think they are. Very good to have the capability to create hems (it could be a good idea to draw the profile and use the flange tool.

In the newer features, however, I can't see changeable K factor and dxf exporting of a whole 2d drawing. For me, theese features are MUSTs, before any else others. A sheet metal module MUST have that cabability.

When do you think to add those?

Thanks for all your work and regards

Marco