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    <title>idea Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule en Revit Ideas</title>
    <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idi-p/8902416</link>
    <description>&lt;P&gt;The panel schedules need to indicate demand load and current per phase. This could be done by adding two more rows under "Total Load" (which shows total calculated load per phase) and "Total Amps" (calculated amps per phase).&amp;nbsp; The demand values are important part of the electrical design process and prevent overloading of the single phase on the panel. The values could be named "Demand Load" and "Demand Amps."&lt;/P&gt;</description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:23:43 GMT</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2019-07-10T22:23:43Z</dc:date>
    <item>
      <title>Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idi-p/8902416</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;The panel schedules need to indicate demand load and current per phase. This could be done by adding two more rows under "Total Load" (which shows total calculated load per phase) and "Total Amps" (calculated amps per phase).&amp;nbsp; The demand values are important part of the electrical design process and prevent overloading of the single phase on the panel. The values could be named "Demand Load" and "Demand Amps."&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:23:43 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idi-p/8902416</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-07-10T22:23:43Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule - Status changed to: Gathering Support</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8940785#M28453</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Hi&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;can you elaborate how you would calculate demand per phase?&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Making some assumptions to try to understand... and you can point to the error in my understanding:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;As an example, if the connected receptacle load is&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase A: 11kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase B: 10kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase C: 9kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Total: 30kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Referring to the OOTB demand factors (100% of the first 10KVA, 50% of the remaining), the resulting demand per phase would be:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase A: 10.5 kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase B: 10 kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase C: 9 kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Total: 29.5 kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;However, looking at the panel in aggregate, the demand ends up being 20kVA (100% * 10kVA + 50% * 20kVA)... so the demand load and current is about 2/3 the connected vs. looking at the phases individually.&amp;nbsp; However, one can't simply take such a factor (the 2/3) and apply to each phase because someone could do this:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase A: 15kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase B: 15kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase C: 0 kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Resulting Demand:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase A: 12.5kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase B: 12.5kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Phase C: 0 kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Total: 25kVA&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;The above 2nd scenario likely bad design, and computing the load per phase isn't going to solve that for you.. but something else helping you see the total load balance per load classification might (?).&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Perhaps it isn't receptacles primarily that you have concern about... whatever additional info/example you can provide can help us understand more about this request.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2019 13:17:40 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8940785#M28453</guid>
      <dc:creator>Martin__Schmid</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-07-31T13:17:40Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8940986#M28457</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Hello Martin,&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;I understand your point. We are bombarded by the local building department requests to indicate a demand load individually per each phase. Currently, in Revit, we added the calculated values of each phase electrical load multiplied by the total demand factor. It does not reflect the real situation but helps us during the permit review process with panelboards and switchboards.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;I understand that Revit's panel balancing option gives a great result but it is could be applied during the original design phase only. Later, when construction starts and more loads added, there is no way to re-balance the entire panel. It will involve the major work from the Electrical Contractor to move circuit breakers inside the installed panelboard per new "re-balanced" layout. This also applied to the existing conditions where improvements are being made. Again, re-balancing helps mathematically relocate loads inside the panel to have each phase calculated load values as close as possible. It does not allow to show the impact of the load types in each phase.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;The idea is to evaluate the load for each phase in relation to the transformer, feeder conductors or feeder circuit breaker. The electrical load types are not distributed evenly between phases. One phase could have more receptacle loads, another phase could have more lighting or kitchen equipment loads. Evaluating these loads individually for each phase helps prevent circuit breakers, conductors or transformers to be undersized.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Everybody understands that the sum of the phase demand loads &lt;U&gt;will not be equal&lt;/U&gt; to the total panel demand load. There is no requirement to have a total panel demand load to be determined based on the sum of the phase demand loads. These are different values. In some way, it reminds me of school math where three pipes filling the basin, but in this case, the panel is a basin.&amp;nbsp; The amount of water running in each pipe is not equal and we want to make sure that pipe (conductor) and valve (circuit breaker) are properly sized to let the safe amount of water run through. Current Revit calculations for panelboards and switchboards average these three pipes into single pipe value. This works for panel or switchboard "total" calculations but not for each individual phase.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;I hope I described the issue. It would be great to see this happening for panels and switchboards calculations.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Please let me know if you have any further questions.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:36:11 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8940986#M28457</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-07-31T14:36:11Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8941364#M28472</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Panel Schedule Sample" style="width: 999px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/662875i6598ECF0F6AA9599/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="Panel Schedule Sample.png" alt="Panel Schedule Sample" /&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-caption" onclick="event.preventDefault();"&gt;Panel Schedule Sample&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Switchboard Sample" style="width: 969px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/662876i3DBA7A63F804F815/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="Switchboard Sample.png" alt="Switchboard Sample" /&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-caption" onclick="event.preventDefault();"&gt;Switchboard Sample&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:17:17 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8941364#M28472</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-07-31T17:17:17Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8941808#M28478</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Hi&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;- thanks for the detail.. this helps describe the why, but doesn't help us understand how you would expect this to be computed.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;Does the building department have guidelines on how they expect you to compute this?&amp;nbsp; It may be that all the data you need is readily available, and a dynamo script could compute this for you... or it may be that the data is aggregated and stored in the model in such a way that this isn't possible.. but we'd need to understand more about the how in order to have an understanding of what improvements would be necessary to make this easier.&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:14:30 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8941808#M28478</guid>
      <dc:creator>Martin__Schmid</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-07-31T21:14:30Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8941819#M28479</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;I assume that it could be done by taking, for example, phase A, calculate its total electrical load, evaluate the demand for this individual phase using load types connected to it, and determine the phase demand load using a multiplier of the total phase electrical load and phase demand load.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Building departments have no guidelines about it. This issue was brought multiple times in Revit forums by different people.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;For AutoCAD project, we are doing it in Excel:&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Excel Panel Schedule" style="width: 841px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/662965i1E03D98AA7DF6CC9/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="Excel Panel Schedule.png" alt="Excel Panel Schedule" /&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-caption" onclick="event.preventDefault();"&gt;Excel Panel Schedule&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Excel Load Calcs including Phases" style="width: 999px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/662966i18847F18855E7725/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="Excel Load Calcs including Phase.png" alt="Excel Load Calcs including Phases" /&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-caption" onclick="event.preventDefault();"&gt;Excel Load Calcs including Phases&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:23:03 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8941819#M28479</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-07-31T21:23:03Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8942070#M28482</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/97419"&gt;@Martin__Schmid&lt;/a&gt;,&amp;nbsp;I'm not sure I'm following what exactly your question is in your first response. But I'll throw in my 2¢ (in more detail than we've discussed in the past) on this issue and maybe it'll help.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;You are correct that someone could put everything on phase A and B and nothing on phase C. I want to point out, though that this isn't necessarily bad design - it could be design constraint. Suppose the designer must (for a some legitimate (albeit unfortunate) reason) add load to an existing single-phase panel that's fed from a three-phase panel; you could end up with that scenario and not be able to do anything about it. There are lots of reasons that certain scenarios can occur that aren't necessarily bad design. We don't live in a perfect world and we're not perfect ourselves.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;It's important to note that 'total panel kVA' or 'total panel Amps' is mere shorthand. We don't really care about the total current on a panel. We care about the total demand current per phase. To say that a panel "has 160 amps demand on it" is just a shortcut. Sure, if the panel is perfectly balanced panel, this would mean 160 demand amps per phase. But such a panel is rare, as connected load&amp;nbsp;&lt;U&gt;per load classification&lt;/U&gt; must be perfectly balanced.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Both companies at which I've been employed calculate demand per phase (in Excel, for AutoCAD jobs) for this reason. In fact one of those companies refused to do panel schedules in Revit for years precisely because it wouldn't do this calc. Admittedly, in new construction it's rarely an issue because we have control over the entire design. But when adding load to an existing system, you really have to pay attention to this when the panel is heavily loaded. I have on more than one occasion had to move load from one phase to another because one phase was overloaded in demand -&amp;nbsp; but not necessarily connected - load.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Example with made-up numbers to suit my purpose: Suppose I have an existing 200A 208/120V panel with the following known demand (however I&amp;nbsp;obtain the information):&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Phase A: 22 kVA / 183 A&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Phase B: 21 kVA / 175 A&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Phase C: 22 kVA / 183 A&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Total: 64 kVA / 178 A&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Now suppose I need to add a 1.7 kVA single-phase lighting load to that panel. That's about 14 A connected 18 A demand. Adding 18 A to 178A - pretty close but doable and I've done it before when I didn't have a better option. But I&amp;nbsp;cannot add this load to phases A or C. It would overload those phases in demand, but not in connected. Revit only gives you that bottom line in demand. It doesn't tell you which phase will support the load. Phase B isn't necessarily the lowest phase in connected load.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;You ask how the calc is to be done, but you seem to answer your own question because you do calc it. Below is the panel schedule calcs (in Excel) from one company I've worked at:&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="FoxitReader_2019-07-31_20-22-21.png" style="width: 999px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/663011i05C10731DE061D8B/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="FoxitReader_2019-07-31_20-22-21.png" alt="FoxitReader_2019-07-31_20-22-21.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;This is from a real new-construction job that I designed. Demand load is calculated per-phase. Notice that the lowest phase connected isn't the lowest phase demand. In fact the phases are exactly reversed when comparing relative load connected vs demand. If I relied on the per-phase information that Revit gives me (connected only) to determine which phase were most lightly-loaded, I'd actually be picking the most heavily-loaded. This demand information is mapped in Excel to whatever upstream panel is feeding it and the calcs are redone. The panel total kVA and amps are just shorthand and mostly meaningless without also having the per-phase information.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;I've seen&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;'s Revit solution suggested on other forums and blogs when I've researched this issue. It may get past the permit reviewers, but it's not an accurate calc. I think Revit should be able to calc this correctly - firms have been doing it for a long time in Excel.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Hopefully that answered your question and gave you useful info without being too long-winded (or with too many math errors)&amp;nbsp;&lt;img id="smileyhappy" class="emoticon emoticon-smileyhappy" src="https://forums.autodesk.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.png" alt="Emoticono feliz" title="Emoticono feliz" /&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 01:42:27 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8942070#M28482</guid>
      <dc:creator>scbunker</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T01:42:27Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943237#M28494</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Thank you for support. You precisely described my point. Everybody figured out how to do it in Excel, but Revit for many years does not implement this critical feature. It should be easily done with some programming on Autodesk side. At the minimum, it would be nice to have the "Demand Factor for Phase *" parameter introduced in the next generation of Revit.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 14:56:25 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943237#M28494</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T14:56:25Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943501#M28496</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Thanks for the details from both of you.. very helpful.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;The basis of my original question is founded the detailed example&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;provided that has a load summary with 'Calculation A' showing:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;UL&gt;
&lt;LI&gt;Total connected receptacle load of 31022 VA&lt;/LI&gt;
&lt;LI&gt;First 10,000VA computed @ 100%&lt;/LI&gt;
&lt;LI&gt;Remaining 21022VA computed @ 50%&lt;/LI&gt;
&lt;/UL&gt;
&lt;P&gt;'Calculation A'&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Recepts.png" style="width: 409px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/663222iDFED8D941AECCB59/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="Recepts.png" alt="Recepts.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;This seems to imply that the receptacle total demand load is 20511 (10000 + 21022 * 0.5).. but the detailed computation summarized in 'Calculation B' indicates that the receptacle demand is: Phase A @ 10310, Phase B @ 8882,&amp;nbsp; Phase C&amp;nbsp;@ 10760&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;'Calculation B'&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Rec.png" style="width: 165px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/663225iCEDFCDCC59A0BADC/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="Rec.png" alt="Rec.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;If everything is computed per phase, then what is the relevance of 'Calculation A'?&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 16:29:47 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943501#M28496</guid>
      <dc:creator>Martin__Schmid</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T16:29:47Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943637#M28497</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Calculation A is a panel schedule the way we issue it to the building department. Calculation B is a hidden area with formulas inside the Excel file that makes all calculations for a panel schedule, including phase connected and demand load summaries.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="2019-08-01 11_30_03-Window.png" style="width: 357px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/663271i8ECECA7B5C3CA6C1/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="2019-08-01 11_30_03-Window.png" alt="2019-08-01 11_30_03-Window.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 17:32:12 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943637#M28497</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T17:32:12Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943643#M28498</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/97419"&gt;@Martin__Schmid&lt;/a&gt;,&amp;nbsp;in my opinion, Calculation A is mostly irrelevant. Notice the calc example I provided you doesn't do that calc. Any calculation concerning the entire panel (which is either a sum or average of the three phases) is merely shorthand to make quick glances and conversation easier. Thus, in my opinion, the only total-panel value that is of any real use is total demand (whether kVA or amps) in order to get a feel or idea of how heavily loaded the panel is, assuming it's roughy balanced. I don't even think total connected is really useful. I like the calcs that my former company did which is why I provided that example for you.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;'s panel schedule reports each load class for the overall panel and perhaps some may want this to get an overall idea of&amp;nbsp;&lt;EM&gt;how&lt;/EM&gt; the panel is loaded but isn't really useful, IMO. I wouldn't show that calc on any panel schedule I built whether in Excel or Revit (had I the option).&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 17:33:56 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943643#M28498</guid>
      <dc:creator>scbunker</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T17:33:56Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943650#M28499</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;HR /&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;wrote:&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;Thank you for support. You precisely described my point. Everybody figured out how to do it in Excel, but Revit for many years does not implement this critical feature. It should be easily done with some programming on Autodesk side. At the minimum, it would be nice to have the "Demand Factor for Phase *" parameter introduced in the next generation of Revit.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;HR /&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;No problem,&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;. I've told Martin before that I don't understand why the engineering community hasn't been more vocal about this issue. So thanks for posting!&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 17:36:59 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943650#M28499</guid>
      <dc:creator>scbunker</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T17:36:59Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943656#M28500</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;I agree with you. Your panel schedule load summary looks more informative. With you permission, can I steal this idea and data format for our company standard?&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 17:39:42 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943656#M28500</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T17:39:42Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943758#M28501</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;:, sure, go ahead!&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;An aside to both of you: the person who developed that Excel sheet (who I presume was the company owner - he's a bit of a brainiac and used to teach engineering classes) knew that total panel calculations don't really make sense. That's why (I think) the only formula spelled-out in the calcs is the bottom-line, total-panel calculation. It's just defining what that number is exactly in case anyone scratches their head over it. I think that's probably unnecessary since that's such a common calc.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2019 18:25:55 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/8943758#M28501</guid>
      <dc:creator>scbunker</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-08-01T18:25:55Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9038553#M29198</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;I was discussing this yesterday with a co-worker, and have been trying to push this through to revit ever since. I see you have added "Demand Load" and "Demand Amps" into a Revit panel schedule. What type of parameter are you using to do this? Are you just using a text parameter? Are you using excel or a circuit schedule to do this for you, and then imputing it using a text parameter? I feel like i am getting fairly close to getting this added, but not sure it is possible without the help of autodesk programmers. It seems that I can get the total into a circuit schedule, but I can not get that information into a Panel schedule in the appropriate area, as it is looking for electrical equipment where you have the Demand load and demand amps.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Thanks,&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Ryan&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 21 Sep 2019 12:56:42 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9038553#M29198</guid>
      <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-09-21T12:56:42Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9057718#M29329</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Ryan, we used the calculated value with the estimated demand factor applied per each phase values.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2019 18:23:57 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9057718#M29329</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-09-30T18:23:57Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9057727#M29330</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;So, what are you pulling the calculated value from?&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Ryan&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2019 18:27:02 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9057727#M29330</guid>
      <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-09-30T18:27:02Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9057756#M29331</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Revit has "Apparent Load" and "Current" parameters for each phase. I am combining these values with "Estimated Demand Factor" for calculated phase values. I understand that it does not represent the actual phase estimated demand load values but it makes it as close as possible to the phase demand loads.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2019 18:38:04 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9057756#M29331</guid>
      <dc:creator>oduday</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2019-09-30T18:38:04Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9811637#M34102</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;hi&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/3316113"&gt;@scbunker&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;and&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/572044"&gt;@oduday&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Revisiting this.. I see that your receptacle demand is taken per-phase (e.g., so a panel w/ exactly 10kVA per phase will be 30kVA/(208(sqrt3)) = 83.3A (thus, no derating).&amp;nbsp; Is it correct to interpret that since each phase is not derated, that the feeder/service (e.g., the OCPD) would similarly NOT be derated?&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;How would you compute the demand on a series of clothes driers per (220.54).&amp;nbsp; Assume each is 208v/1p (L-L), 2kVA, each on a dedicated circuit.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Thus, Phase AB has 2 driers, BC has 2 driers, and CA has 2 driers... result is that each phase sees 4 driers.. but the 3-phase OCPD for the feeder would see 6.&amp;nbsp; Would you apply a 75% factor to the OCPD (and/or the feeder), or would you leave it at 100%... and would you expect all engineers (at least those governed by the NEC) to follow suit?&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="example.png" style="width: 394px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/833298iC24FFEA9E8951722/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="example.png" alt="example.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="ecd.png" style="width: 999px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/833299i71FB690342A263D0/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="ecd.png" alt="ecd.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2020 21:18:00 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9811637#M34102</guid>
      <dc:creator>Martin__Schmid</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2020-10-19T21:18:00Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Phase demand loads and current in panel schedule</title>
      <link>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9814147#M34129</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;a href="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/97419"&gt;@Martin__Schmid&lt;/a&gt;,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Actually, the demand factor is not determined per phase, but is rather determined for the whole panel and then applied per phase.&amp;nbsp; I haven't taken the time to review my previous comments to see whether I let you astray; I'm sorry if I did.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;I have Excel files from two different firms. Although the formulas they are using are slightly different, they're actually the same thing. As in the calculate the exact same way.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Example 1:&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;A = if(A+B+C &amp;lt;= 10, A, A / (A+B+C) * 10 + 0.5 * A - A / (A+B+C) * 10)&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Example 2:&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;A = if(A+B+C &amp;lt;= 10, A, (10+(A+B+C-10) * 0.5) / (A+B+C) * A)&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;The second example makes most sense to my brain. The expression&amp;nbsp;(10+(A+B+C-10) * 0.5) / (A+B+C) is determining the demand factor that is applied to the receptacle loads on the panel (this would be the percentage that the current Revit panel schedules report). That demand factor is applied to each phase. The first example is somehow the same formula rearranged because it calculates exactly the same, but I haven't taken the time to wrap my head around the logic behind how it was developed.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;So in your example of 10 kVA of receptacle load per phase for a total of 30 kVA on the panel: total receptacle demand on the panel would be 20 kVA, divided to 6.67 kVA per phase. This jives with how I understand the code. At first glance, it may not makes sense because changing one phase can affect the others. For example, here's 10 kVA per phase:&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="10 each.png" style="width: 388px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/833840i862207335B2B624C/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="10 each.png" alt="10 each.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;And here is phase C increased to 20 kVA:&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="unbalanced.png" style="width: 387px;"&gt;&lt;img src="https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/833841i841D6CAEC5D791D3/image-size/large?v=v2&amp;amp;px=999" role="button" title="unbalanced.png" alt="unbalanced.png" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;What may not make sense at first glance is that increasing load on phase C actually decreased demand load on phases A and B. But it does make sense if you think of it as first determining the receptacle demand load for the panel, then applying that demand load to each phase.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;The same would be the case in your example of multiple dryers on different phases. Determine the demand factor based on the total number of dryers, then apply that demand factor to each phase. So, to use your example, total connected load for A, B, C would be 4000, 4000, 4000, the total number of dryers on the equipment is 6, so the demand factor applied to each phase is 75%, and demand for A, B, C would be 3000, 3000, 3000.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;If you delete the dryer on circuit 6 in your example, total connected would be 3000, 4000, 3000, demand factor would be 85%, and demand would be 2550, 3400, 2550.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Hopefully that makes sense.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2020 00:58:56 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/phase-demand-loads-and-current-in-panel-schedule/idc-p/9814147#M34129</guid>
      <dc:creator>scbunker</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2020-10-21T00:58:56Z</dc:date>
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