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Vault install, basic 2015 on two computers.

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Message 1 of 16
swright_CAD
1387 Views, 15 Replies

Vault install, basic 2015 on two computers.

Hi there, I have a bit of a problem. My work (small design firm) currently has 1 server that is being used to store all of our designers files, along with being the domain controller for their computers. I have been able to install Vault Basic on the server due to the sql server not installing (have tried every work around and option and am throwing in the towel on installing it on there). I won't be able to get my work to sign off on another server to run just the vault, but I have a unused engineering computer...

 

My question is this. Would it be possible to install vault on the the unused computer and make all of my vaults on the existing server?

 

That way all the files are stored on the server (which is backed up daily) yet the actual management software is on another system, thus avoiding the problems with it not installing on the server.

 

My second question is, what would be the obvious problem with this plan?

 

I know there is one, or two or 47 reasons why this might be a terrible idea but I can't seem to think of any major problems with it. Any help is appreciated.

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
Neil_Cross
in reply to: swright_CAD

To be perfectly honest it's a terrible idea, don't do it.  I appreciate the dilemma you have, but I highly recommend just not doing that.

 

I've never personally attempted to do what you're trying to achieve, but I'm fairly confident you can't install SQL Express on a desktop but have the instance directory including all the database files on a totally different machine.  Even if it was possible to do that, it's still a bad idea.  If the network was to drop, which they do regularly, you could end up in a big mess with that kind of setup.  Also, Vault server transactions via the ADMS would be redirected over the network to a remote database and filestore, which again I'm sure you can't do with Vault Basic, but even so that would be terribly slow and unreliable.

 

Not a helpful answer.  So if I was in your shoes, my first goal would be to do everything in my power to get a new server signed off.  You don't need to have a high end server for Vault Basic in an environment which is relatively minimal load.  A very basic rack or tower server would be fine, Dell do them for around the same or less than the price of a CAD workstation.  Most engineering companies' management understand the importance of their design data, so dismissing the best and safest options of hosting & backing up that data is a dangerous game to play, complacent, and asking for a disaster.  Having a dedicated Vault server should be right up their with the biggest and highest of priorities in an engineering business.

 

If that's still not going to happen, your only real option is to install the full Vault Basic solution on the desktop PC.  Just be aware that if you ever upgraded to Vault to a 'paid for' version, they're not supported on desktops as of 2015.  Make sure you wipe the desktop PC and install a clean operating system on it, try to avoid running another programs on that PC, and make sure there's no troublesome firewall or anti-virus programs on it which would cause chaos.  

 

It's really not that unsafe to do this as long as you actively manage and monitor the PC.  Use a script to perform Vault Console backups every night, that will backup the full Vault to a folder... then either manually copy or script copy the backup folder to the domain controller after the backup finishes ensuring the folder gets copied to a location which is backed up to tape.  

 

If this is all sounding way out of your comfort zone, I highly recommend contacting a local Vault Specialised Autodesk reseller and ask for their help.  I've done countless jobs of this nature, it should take less than half a day to install Vault Basic and set up a backup routine, providing you don't require any data loading into the new Vault.  Then you have peace of mind and a solid reliable company for ongoing support.

 

Hope that helps.

Message 3 of 16
swright_CAD
in reply to: Neil_Cross

Thank you for your very detailed response, I knew the idea was a little out there when I posted it but I am about at my wits end with this.

 

A brand new server won't happen, but I should be able to get some more ram and more hard drives pumped into the unused engineering computer we have and run vault off of that. I can do that, but it isn't ideal. It is concerning that Vault workgroups isn't supported on a desktop for 2015 as I feel like that would be what we would ultimately want. So the delimea would be to install Basic on a computer and get my company on board with vault, but fearful that 2016 would remove the ability to do that, leaving us forced to buy a new server.

 

I have been in contact with our retailer, they wanted 22k to install it on our server. Needless to say that conversation didn't get past the hallway.

 

Thank you again for your help, I was looking for someone to push me over the fence before I spent even more time trying to solve this, you have done that.

Message 4 of 16
Neil_Cross
in reply to: swright_CAD

22k as is $22k or £22k?! In either currency that's overkill for the job it needs to do.  Plus I guess they'll be adding labour on top for install and setup, but to put it into perspective:

 

http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/poweredge-tower-server-deals

 

£1289 exc.VAT for a PowerEdge tower server with 2TB and 16GB RAM, including the server operating system.  That's absolutely 100% fine for Vault Basic.  How they got to 22k...

 

All isn't lost though.  If you feel that Vault Workgroups is something you want to pursue, you can buy a license of Windows Server and install that onto a desktop PC.  It isn't the hardware that Autodesk are picky about, it's the operating system mainly, I've got two desktop PCs on my desk both with Windows 2008 Server installed and Vault Professional 2015 Server on them... working away just nicely.  

 

Is that something you could consider?

Message 5 of 16
swright_CAD
in reply to: Neil_Cross

$22,000 just for the install of the software, said it would take 2 weeks. I laughed at them as I had already installed it on my workstation (to validate that the installer wasn't corrupt, which it wasn't) and was configuring it and was setting user accounts in about two hours. I figured it would take 4 days tops even with a full day of training.

I will go the route of having it on a desktop pc, maybe I can get them to buy a server OS for it. We will see.
Message 6 of 16
Neil_Cross
in reply to: swright_CAD

Are you kidding me, a quote of 2 weeks / 10 working days just purely for a Vault Basic server install?? They must be bundling in training days on top of that, or consultancy work, or data upload.  Any tech consultant who understands Vault can have it installed and working in less than half a day, and would typically book in 1 day for redundancy... in case of problematic issues which need attention.  As you've probably saw already, the installer itself if it goes smooth can take less than 15 minutes.  I'm shocked and would love to know the details of that quote! 

Message 7 of 16
DarrenP
in reply to: Neil_Cross

i would have to agree with the above statement 2 weeks for a Vault Basic install is a lie

i think they are trying to rip you off

DarrenP
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Message 8 of 16
Neil_Cross
in reply to: DarrenP

I don't want to throw serious accusations around, as we don't really know the full story and what the quote contains exactly.  But personally I've done hundreds of Vault Basic installs for hundreds of companies and I can count on one hand how many times it took longer than 1 day to get the entire job finished.  And that was very early on when nobody really knew how problematic Windows Small Business Server was, that was a bad day.

 

I'd love to know if the company providing the quote are an official Autodesk Reseller as well.  If this is what it is on face value, it would need to be escalated/reported.  But again, there could be a perfectly good explanation Smiley Frustrated

Message 9 of 16
dhrupal
in reply to: swright_CAD

Can you guide me, how to install Vault basic for multiple users on a PC (as a server) connected throught internet (not LAN or local company network). My team mates are located at different geographic locations in a single country.
I dont have much knowledge of servers, SQL, IIS.

Message 10 of 16
Neil_Cross
in reply to: dhrupal

Vault installs can be pretty tricky depending on the environment, personally I wouldn't ever type out Vault install instructions as there are too many variables and points at which things could go wrong.  However if you're just using Vault Basic with SQL Express, a next > next > next type of install might do for you.  If you don't feel comfortable doing it though, get help from your reseller.

 

Once you do get it installed, you're going to have a hard time connecting into over the internet unless you can set up a VPN into the company network.  If you already have a VPN, connect that up over the internet and the off-site workers shoud be able to log into it.

Message 11 of 16
DarrenP
in reply to: dhrupal


@dhrupal wrote:

Can you guide me, how to install Vault basic for multiple users on a PC (as a server) connected throught internet (not LAN or local company network). My team mates are located at different geographic locations in a single country.
I dont have much knowledge of servers, SQL, IIS.


do you have IT staff that can help setup VPN access?

even if you get this setup bandwidth might be a problem since it looks like your trying to access from other countries

have you looked into vault file server replication or full vault replication with Vault Pro

DarrenP
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Message 12 of 16
ryan
in reply to: swright_CAD

Bearing in mind that a dedicated vault server is certainly the ideal and that as other in this thread point out, your "server" can be a workstation-class PC, you can get Vault installed on a Domain Controller (again, not recommended but definately do-able).  In fact, just did a Vault install on a Domain Controller for a customer a few weeks back.

 

But, you need to know the "trick" which is that you *MUST* pre-install the SQL Express instance and configure it to run under the "Local System" account (or even a Domain account for that matter).  Now that you have the SQL instance installed, the Vault Server install will see it and use the already configured one.

 

While a dedicated server (aka machine) which is *NOT* a Domain Controller is the ideal, you can get Vault going on your existing Domain Controller.

 

-Ryan

Ryan Small
National Team Leader, Data Management and Software Development
SolidCAD, a Cansel Company (an Autodesk Platinum Partner)
www.solidcad.ca
Message 13 of 16
dhrupal
in reply to: ryan

If thats a case, then can you guide me some best way to work collaboratively for following scenerio.
Scenerio:
We are a student team developing some product. We use Inventor 2015 on laptops. Our team's 90% members are in our academic institute connected with fast intranet, while two members are outside the intranet, but they are also connected nicely with internet. At our institute lab, their is availability of PC-workstation ( a good PC), which is connected with a very very good internet connectiviely wit proxy network. We can install server on that PC (dedicatin. Also we work at different places like our hostel room or lab or some meeting place.

Current Procedure: We work with CAD files in collaboration, so we use file sharing sites like Dropbox.com etc. All the user defined-files are synced, but the content center/ user defined library files are creating lots of problem. Also sometimes different person edit the same file simultaneously and hence creating conflicted files. Also file paths creates some problems.

Q1) Can thier be proper use of ipj projects etc?
Q2) How to "configure it to run under the "Local System" account (or even a Domain account for that matter)" for accessing over internet.
Q3) Can any PC (workstation) (connected with internet) be made "Domain Controller"?
Q4) The above scenerio is possible with vault basic?


I learned to install SQL and IIS partially. Also their is staff of internet facilities to help us. Can you provide your gmail id. (mine is dhrupal93@gmail.com)

Message 14 of 16
Neil_Cross
in reply to: dhrupal

Mi m8,

 

Ryans post above was directed at the original author of this post, so the talk of domain controllers and local SQL accounts wasn't for your situation.

 

I think from what you've described, you're still in a position whereby you guys will only be able to use Vault via a VPN.  If you can get Vault Basic installed onto a PC/Server inside your academic institute, the only reliable way to connect to that PC/Server is if you had a VPN line into the network.  Think of Vault in the same way as you would access your institutes intranet site, if you fire up your laptop in an internet cafe for example, you won't be able to access the intranet site as the server providing the site pages is on a totally separated and isolated network.  Vault is kinda the same.  Your laptop needs to be able to 'see' the server and have the ability to establish a connection to it, the only way to do this is if you have a VPN.  But as mentioned above, depending on the size of your models you may experience poor performance only working with Vault over a VPN.  

 

I assume you got your licenses through the free educational program so you may not have had any dealings with an official Autodesk reseller? Honestly, if you can get the funds signed off by your institute it may be worth getting a professional in to do it.  Providing there's no complicating factors i.e. data upload, a Vault Basic install shouldn't take any more than 1 day, it's a simple job for an experienced Vault techie.  In the long run that'll be massively beneficial, you'll know it's been set up properly and you shouldn't have any issues caused from mistakes whilst trying to do it yourselves.

 

Is that a possibility or totally out of the question?

 

p.s. the Autodesk reseller may not be able to create a VPN for you, as mentioned above that's a job for internal I.T staff. 

Message 15 of 16
DarrenP
in reply to: dhrupal

Q2) How to "configure it to run under the "Local System" account (or even a Domain account for that matter)" for accessing over internet. not understanding configure what? and access what over the Internet? the Inventor Project File?
Q3) Can any PC (workstation) (connected with internet) be made "Domain Controller"? no this requires a dedicated server

does your school have an IT stuff to help this is a question that you need to ask I.T


 

DarrenP
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Message 16 of 16
dhrupal
in reply to: DarrenP

Thanks for you comments.
I setup the vault server for trails with help of IT staff and were able to see files over other clients with LAN. 
Our institute has its SSL-VPN network.

But the problem is with availability of PC.
I need your advice on making a normal i5/i3 4GB PC as a server for 5 users. I dont have a workstation. What all problem can it create in long run? Can we use that PC for normal officail use while running Vault.

OR
Since we use dropbox (etc) for file syncing.
Please suggest some means to organise content center files and library (may be using ipj file for single user) so that multiple users are possible to have file paths to content center file. (we only feel problem in accessing content center files like nut-botls etc in inventor) 

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