Testing a new Server/Vault install

[tahdesign1]

So I have built a new server with Vault Basic 2014 on it.

I intend to take a backup from Vault Basic 2012 and restore to it then migrate the data.

I will then use this to test all the setups I have been developing to upgrade to 2014 (templates, styles) and also the functioning of the new server (Check in/out etc).

Once I am done with the testing I wish to delete the Vault from the new server to then restore a more up-to-date one.

Do I just detach and delete?

[paul.gunn]

Hi,

You can just do a restore - the restore operation will itself remove any existing databases, etc (after appropriate warning & confirmation).

Paul

[tahdesign1]

OK so that sounds simple but does it take in the fact that I will be restoring a 2012 backup over 2014 database.

When I do it the first time I assume the data will be migrated. Then I will work with it for my testing purposes.

While this is going on the 2012 production vault will still be changing as design work goes on.

So then when I am ready I will pull a fresh new backup to restore to the new server. However this time it is not a blank server but a server with a 2014 database that I will be over-writing with a 2012 backup, any issue there?

In this upgrade process I also intend to rename the Vault.

From what I understand I just detach and re-attached. During the re-attach I will have the abilility to rename it?

[paul.gunn · Accepted solution]

Hi,

Yes - the restore behavior is the same regardless of whether database needs to be migrated. So I would not foresee any issues. Your plan for renaming the vault (detach/attach) should work fine - during attach you can specify the name of the vault.

Paul

[tahdesign1]

Thank You

[mdellunto]

Hi tahdesign,

From what I am getting out of your post is you are going to try and restore a 2012 backup from a 2012 server directly to a 2014 server?

From what i understand with upgrading vaults is your need to run the 2014 install over the 2012 vault install. You can not simply create a 2012 backup using ADMS 2012 and then restore it to ADMS 2014. I don't even think vault will allow the restore. It will say something about the versions not being the same. I know it errors out if you have vault 2014 sp1 installed and try and restore it to a 2014 sp2. It will say the versions of vault are different. 

[paul.gunn]

Hi mdellunto

mdellunto
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It sounds like in your case you were trying to restore a new backup onto older software - as you mention this will not work. That said, it is certainly possible to restore from older backups (assuming it is within two major versions back). The migration will run automatically as part of the restore operation.

Paul

[tahdesign1]

So I have been told several things, from varing source, as to how this will work.

I did already try to restore a 2012 backup to the new 2014 server and it did not work. However, it was not 2012 basic to 2014 basic. I was trying to restore from 2012 basic to 2014 Pro and that will not work.

So I also was told I needed to install 2014 basic over 2012 basic and then upgrade 2014 basic to 2014 pro.

However that would have been on the old server and I want to be on a new server with pro (newer os and full sql, etc).

I had a second server built and ready as a pass through if I needed to do a install 2014 over 2012 approach but then an ADSKer said I was adding to many steps.

I will go down the path of this restoring a basic 2012 to a basic 2014 and report my results.

Once I am up and running (client side also) on 2014 for a while, I will then upgrade the version of the 2014 Vault from basic to pro.

[mdellunto]

Wow a bit shocked and pissed off at the same time. I was told that you can not restore 2013 pro to 2014 pro and have it upgrade. I wish I knew this a few weeks ago. would have saved me a day of work. Autodesk really needs to make this more clear to people. I can not find one offical document saying this is a option.

Thank you soo much for this. I will deff use it when upgrading from 2014 to 2015. 

So mad right now.

I know for a fact you can not restore a 2014 basic to a 2014 pro never even thought about trying difference year versions.

check out this forum

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/vault-general-discussion/upgrade-vault-2012-to-vault-2014/td-p/4296105

[minkd]

I'm pretty sure you can restore a backup from Vault Basic ADMS to a Vault Pro ADMS, even if they are different years.  We support restoring backups from N-1, and N-2 releases, so for 2014 you can restore backups from 2013 and 2012.  We do this all the time during development and testing.

Upgrading in place however, presents some challenges.  Due to different versions of Vault supporting different ranges of SQL versions, you may have to upgrade SQL first; and I believe Microsoft did not let you upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit directly - instead you had to go the backup/restore route.

-Dave

[tahdesign1]

OK mdellunto just stated all of this seems to be very unclear and we tend to get different direction from different ADSKers in these replies.

Dave,

It seems that you are saying that you should be able to directly restore a Basic 2012 Backup to a new install of Pro 2014 (I did try that and failed).

However, in a previous thread, Irvin directed us to the help page for Vault upgrade that seesm to state that you should upgrade release year first Then product release...not all at once as you are saying.

Here is that help file page:

http://help.autodesk.com/view/VAULT/Help/ENU/?guid=GUID-77487172-0582-4912-83B1-2E4847716AE0

Now I don't know if this matters but in my process I am going from Vault 2012 Basic on Windows Server 2008 with SQL 2008 Express to Vault 2014 Pro on Windows Server 2012 with SQL 2012 Standard. I don't know if the change in OS and SQL would have been what made the restore fail the first time or not.

[minkd]

If it failed, what was the error in the ADMS-Console log?

-Dave

[tahdesign1]

Dave,

I am sorry but that was a while back and we have rebuilt the server since then.

When we were told we could not go that path I tried to uninstall 2014 Pro and go down to 2014 basic but could not (not support upgrade path or something like that).

So we basically stripped the server back down to os and started again with new sql install and the ADMS Basic 2014.

I will be trying a restore today of Basic 2012 from the old server to Basic 2014 on the new server.

At this point I intend to get my basic to basic upgrade tested and running then pull up my clients.

Once we have been running 2014 for a bit I will then upgrade from Basic 2014 to Pro 2014 in place.

My intend is to do this before I go to AU so I can hear of anything to look out for when I pull us up to Pro 2015.

I do not intend to start developing my use of lifecycles, etc until I am at current product level.

So at first I will just let the Pro Vault act as the basic does until I am ready to put procedures into place. 

[tahdesign1]

OK so my backup from ADMS 2012 Basic from the old server appears to have successfully restored to ADMS 2014 Basic on the new server. I have installed the 2014 Basic Client and can log in and see the files within the restored 2014 Vault. However, I have not attempted to use any applications (Inventor primarily) to pull down any files yet. There are a dew things that I am seeing that I do not understand.

• Upon completion of the restore and migration, ADMS said it was successful and something like a File Store Validation had been scheduled. I have looked throughout the ADMS console and Windows Task Scheduler but do not see anything for this. Any idea what this is and when it will run so I know the restore is totally complete?

• I had previously asked the question about including the standard content in my original backup. I was told that I could exclude that since I intended to install the 2014 content on the new server. By not including that the backup would still get all the content that had actually been used in the designs, it would just not pull the install source libraries. So on my server I had, before the restore, installed the 2014 standard content source libraries. However, it appears that the restore from 2012 wiped those out (see image 2014). Does this mean that I needed to install the 2014 Standard Source Libraries AFTER the restore since it appears the restore wipes them out?

• Even though I was able to look at the restored Vault using the 2014 client and it seems correct (I just looked at what I knew were some of the most recent file areas being added) there are some differences in the console information screens that I do not understand. Please refer to attached images 2012 and 2014. Here are the difference I do not understand.
• Database size: 2014 is larger than 2012 (6.91 GB vs 6.64 GB)
• File store size does not match: 2012 is 139.79 GB while 2014 shows 1.24 GB / 97.55 GB. So not only are they different but what does it mean with the / between the numbers.
• Number of Files in Store does not match: 2012 shows 321443 while 2014 shows 3443 / 235801. Once again they are different and what does the / between the number indicate.

Please note that I am only testing at the moment so if there is something I need to do or change about my methods that is the information  I am looking for.

A couple of things I would probably do before I make the actual move:

1. Purge the old vault. I assume this would be clearing out all the older versions of files.
2. defragment the database (after purging)

I feel that I am very close to having the proper method for moving and testing our setups to 2014 but I really need to understand these issues.

[paul.gunn]

Hi,

You can view filestore validation along with other tasks in 'server tasks' in ADMS console. This task goes through the filestore to compute presence and checksum of all files - this can take some time but the system is usable during this process.

You are probably seeing ongoing filestore validation with the (#/#) display - i.e. first number is only files that have been validated. Total files size is smaller because vault 2013 eliminates duplicate files as a space-saving measure (e.g. if you change category on a file, there is no longer an identical and duplicate copy of the file on disk). Database size often increases as an artifact of migration - ie. transient data. SQL will use this space moving forward.

My understanding is that you will need to install 2014 content after restore. No data survives a restore process - i.e. the restore completely replaces all databases with those at time of backup.

Hope this helps,

Paul

[mdellunto]

Paul is right,

After a restore the file store must complete a check sum to insure that everything was copied over from the backup. If your file store is over 100 GB this could 1-3 hours. The vault is usable at this point but I would suggest that you don't try and do anything in the ADMS console until it is done (like enableing content indexing will break your indexe's and you will have to rebuild them).

After you are done your restore and login to the ADMS console for the first time it should ask you what librarys you would like to keep and install. I am not sure how else to add them. Maybe this link will help.

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/vault-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU...

Cheers happy to hear you where able to restore directly to a 2014 basic server from 2012 basic . I know I am going to use this method for now on.

[tahdesign1]

Aww I see now after some time the "/" are gone and the sizes just reflect what was stated to the left for file store size and number of files.

OK so tomorrow I will go ahead and re-install the 2014 standard content libraries before I do any of my testing with the clients.

So moving forward I know I have to install the content libraries AFTER the restore but I still have a couple of question about the backup.

1. Purge: This is something I have never done. Should I do this before I make the backup I am going to move? Just this just get ride of the multiple files versions in the Vault?
2. Defragment Database: This is also something that I have never done. Should I do this after a purge and before the backup? When I first restore and it was still validating the 2014 Vault stated that this was recommended. However, now that it has finished it say it is not recommended?
3. Content Indexing Service: This is not on in my 2012 Basic Vault and it is also not on in the 2014 Basic Fault. Does it need to be?

[mdellunto]

The number one rule of Autodesk Vault which autodesk says in the beinging of almost everyVault service pack or hot fix is to always create a backup VIA ADMS before doing anything to the vault. For example If you purge your versions before you create a backup then you risk purging too much and never being able to go back.

 The best solution i find for purging is to create a backup and archive it. this way you will always have the vault to go back to incase you need to dig deeper.

Never defrag while the firestore is valadating. this could cause problems but i am not 100% sure better to be safe then sorry. Only defrag after a full ADMS backup. defraging should speed things up. I have noticed on my file store at then end of each week it is needing a defrag a littie bit more then i am use to in 2013. I have run the defrag at the end of each week for the past 3 weeks after a full vault backup and everything is still running fine for me.

Content Indexing Service is only needed if you wish to search for keywords inside files. I would read the autodesk's help about it first to better understand it. One thing to note is if you do enable Content Indexing Service you need to beef up your system. Content Indexing will use more ram and CPU. My server runs 2 cpus 3ghz each and 16 GB of ram. Once i move back to a physical server it will have 32gb of ram. When i run my sql maintance plan sql loves to eat system memory until it hits my cutoff point I set within SQL .

[tahdesign1]

I did read about the Context Indexing and I do not see a need for me to turn that on at this point.

I have never done any Purge and/or Defraging but I believe I will try to work that into my maintenance moving forward. And of course I will only do this after preforming AND testing in my test environment a full backup.

a couple of questions on these two tasks:

• I assume they should be preformed during down time when no one is using and interacting with the Vault
• I do not see where this can scheduled. Is there a method to make these run in the off hours the same way I do my backups? 

[paul.gunn · Accepted solution]

Hi,

Both of these operations can be run via ADMS console command line, so can be run similar to backups. Here is information on the various command line options:

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/vault-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/Help/ENU...

Defragmentation is good to run regularly for performance - this optimizes the database access. I would not necessarily run purge regularly - as it will not improve performance per se. It's main function is to reduce number of files on disk - so running on a periodic basis should be fine for most users.

Paul