Vault General Discussion

Vault General Discussion

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*Expert Elite*
CelticDesignServices
Posts: 518
Registered: ‎11-29-2011
Message 1 of 12 (286 Views)

"Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

286 Views, 11 Replies
05-14-2012 12:48 PM

No, not me, a user and trust me, I REALLY cleaned up what was said.

When asked what he had done, etc. he says "I checked the file out this morning, been working on it and making sure I checked it back in at least 10 times this morning and this last time I selected Yes when it asked me if I wanted to over write the older version in Vault with the newer version on my local Vault."

 

OK, we all know Vault does NOT prompt you with a warning when you are updating the file in Vault. It's obvious he was working on a non-checked out version on his local, went to save the file and realized he had the read only copy, attempted to check the file out and got the "over write with older version" warning.

 

Of course, it's the software's fault and I'm sure the leads will get an earful of reasons why he has to do 4+ hrs of work thanks to the software not doing things right.

 

Note: The last version he had actually saved to Vault was at 9:00am this morning. So I'll bet the "10+ saves to Vault" were actually just saves to his local or as they say "local vault".

 

AutoDesk, can I make a suggestion?

Can you please change the wording and/or using big red bold type and/or warning signs for the "...newer version...do you want to over write it with the older version in Vault" pop-up?

 

Why is it that supposedly smart people just can't follow a simple process that is Vaulting files?

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Jim
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Employee
olearya
Posts: 671
Registered: ‎08-14-2008
Message 2 of 12 (258 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-15-2012 07:49 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

Hey Jim,

 

We have in the last couple of releases made the process of overwriting good data more difficult but understand the frustration.  It is a balance of the correct training (taking time to understand the software and dialogs, not saying yes to every question) and perhaps less but more meaningful dialogs.

 

This may be an opportunity for some more robust messaging around the dialog.



Allan
Product Manager
Autodesk, Inc.
Distinguished Contributor
cmcconnell
Posts: 237
Registered: ‎08-15-2007
Message 3 of 12 (233 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-16-2012 05:29 AM in reply to: olearya

It is very easy to edit files out of turn using IV. Inventor will clear read only flags on a save - no questions asked....

Mechanix Design Solutions inc.
*Expert Elite*
CelticDesignServices
Posts: 518
Registered: ‎11-29-2011
Message 4 of 12 (217 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-16-2012 11:46 AM in reply to: olearya

Hi again Allan,

 

One thing I'd like to have the ability is to be able to edit or modify the wording of the prompt dialogue boxes.

Reformatting them even, like adding red colored wording or even the color of the box to red or yellow, etc.

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Jim
Celtic Design Services, LLC

Inventor/AutoCAD/Vault WorkGroups
Always for hire - celticdesign01ATyahooDOTcom
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Celtic-Design-Services-LLC/184666001666426
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*Expert Elite*
scottmoyse
Posts: 1,696
Registered: ‎06-10-2009
Message 5 of 12 (202 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-17-2012 01:59 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

Look the wording of the dialogues surrounding what the Vault add-in is going to do in certain situations is always going to be tricky. The way messages are worded have different effects on different people. Although I think Jim's suggestion is a good one it is slightly 'out there' with respect to typical software.

 

However, for a product with such a secure name, it doesn't secure the local data files very well. Its one thing I'm surprised hasn't improved with Vault, I would like to see Vault create a temporary folder with the Old Version saved away so work can be retrieved if the user does make that mistake. It's always surprising for new users that they can delete a truck load of work in one hit by selecting the incorrect options when prompted. I agree training is the key here, but even advanced users get itchy trigger fingers sometimes, then suddenly they look like school boys/girls! All thats needed is an out of the box Vault old versions... come on Allan make it happen!

 

Nevertheless, here's a thought I haven't tested yet, but I'm thinking with Inventor Vault project files it would be a good idea to increase the number of Old Versions from the default 1 to 2 or 3, maybe even 10 depending on the available space on your hard drive. At least that way you could go through and restore a whole bunch of files, I'm just not sure how well that would work across an entire data set...

Cheers
Scott Moyse

Please use Mark Solutions!.Accept as Solution &Give Kudos!Kudos to further enhance the value of these forums. Cheers!

*Expert Elite*
CelticDesignServices
Posts: 518
Registered: ‎11-29-2011
Message 6 of 12 (192 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-17-2012 10:51 AM in reply to: scottmoyse

Scott,

Yes, I never figured a user would be allowed to dig deep enough to modify the prompts...I guess I was attempting to push AutoDesk (or Allan) to modify the prompt menus based on the importance of the error.

 

But then again, when users are in the habit of clicking "yes" to pretty much every prompt that comes up (and there are a lot of them), they don't really pay attention.

 

I need to go in and see what prompts I can eliminate, like the constant "update properties" prompt, just do it.

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Jim
Celtic Design Services, LLC

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Always for hire - celticdesign01ATyahooDOTcom
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==========================================================
Please use the "Accept as Solution" and "Give Kudos" functions as appropriate to further enhance the value of these forums.

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Employee
olearya
Posts: 671
Registered: ‎08-14-2008
Message 7 of 12 (189 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-17-2012 11:01 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

Yes I hear you Jim and Scott :smileyhappy:

 

I think the UX team preference is to make Vault use less intrusive in terms of the basic interaction / dialogs etc rather than making them more complicated but I understand the concerns - sometimes you need a wake up message.

 

In terms of the other input here, old versions would get you out of trouble to a point... in my mind though we are adding complexity in order to make the system fool proof - in my experience when you make it fool proof they build a better fool.

 

We could also consider a different workflow altogether where we worked out of a local cache instead of a workspace so users could not manage the files locally - rather any interaction was automatically sent to Vault.  Again though if we make this too restrictive users will find a way around it - copy files in and out of the folder to work on them etc...

 

I think there are improvements we can make to strike a better balance.



Allan
Product Manager
Autodesk, Inc.
*Expert Elite*
CelticDesignServices
Posts: 518
Registered: ‎11-29-2011
Message 8 of 12 (179 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-17-2012 02:11 PM in reply to: olearya

Allan,

 

As you well know, you can't design out stupid.

I know, I've tried.

 

As far as accessing older versions, I'd be worried if they were easily accessible by the general user, that same user would somehow access them and who knows, release an older version, next thing you know, you have a basket of scrap metal in the shop waiting for you. It's bad enough now where users activate the local copy and start working in that then check out the file and then that brings us right back to the over writing of the file.

 

I'm sorry, I just have never been able to figure out why it's so difficult for some users to understand or follow, it's actually a pretty simple process. Maybe that's because I tend to spend much more time in Vault than in CAD these days.

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Inventor.PNG     vault.PNG



Jim
Celtic Design Services, LLC

Inventor/AutoCAD/Vault WorkGroups
Always for hire - celticdesign01ATyahooDOTcom
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Celtic-Design-Services-LLC/184666001666426
==========================================================
Please use the "Accept as Solution" and "Give Kudos" functions as appropriate to further enhance the value of these forums.

Go raibh maith agat (in other words...Thank you!)
*Expert Elite*
scottmoyse
Posts: 1,696
Registered: ‎06-10-2009
Message 9 of 12 (173 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-17-2012 03:43 PM in reply to: olearya

olearya wrote:

Yes I hear you Jim and Scott :smileyhappy:

 

I think the UX team preference is to make Vault use less intrusive in terms of the basic interaction / dialogs etc rather than making them more complicated but I understand the concerns - sometimes you need a wake up message.

 

In terms of the other input here, old versions would get you out of trouble to a point... in my mind though we are adding complexity in order to make the system fool proof - in my experience when you make it fool proof they build a better fool.

 

We could also consider a different workflow altogether where we worked out of a local cache instead of a workspace so users could not manage the files locally - rather any interaction was automatically sent to Vault.  Again though if we make this too restrictive users will find a way around it - copy files in and out of the folder to work on them etc...

 

I think there are improvements we can make to strike a better balance.


All thats needed is for the files being replaced to be stashed somewhere thats accesible only by the administrator. So the general user cant abuse the feature, but if they abuse their own data the Administrator (Super hero) can swoop in to save the day.

Cheers
Scott Moyse

Please use Mark Solutions!.Accept as Solution &Give Kudos!Kudos to further enhance the value of these forums. Cheers!

Member
ssather23
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎03-21-2011
Message 10 of 12 (155 Views)

Re: "Vault deleted all my work this morning!"

05-18-2012 11:07 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

I've been using Inventor for about 18 months now, and working as the Administrator for 6 of those. Between my experience with other CAD programs and Inventor, the Inventor prompts need a degree in legalese to read, understand, and act on correctly. Many times the "aftermative" actions are inconsistent (i.e. clicking Yes will cancel this action vs clicking Yes will overwrite all your local data). 

 

My users struggle the most with the want to cancel the action and back up. For example, one of my designers for a long time hope that clicking the red windows X to close the diaglog would cancel the action all together, as in he realized he was going to open the wrong file and didn't want to even have to chose to over write data, update assemblies, or any of the sort.

 

Just cleaning up the wording of the prompts, creating a consistent user interface, and giving the ability to cancel actions and revert would go miles to improving the stress level of my designers, and the amount of work I need to do to clean up their mistakes.

 

If you ever want a test user group for prompts, or suggestions on prompt langauges, we'd be chomping at the bit to help!

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