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move/rename files in vault explanation for 2012

16 REPLIES 16
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Message 1 of 17
kmiller
1647 Views, 16 Replies

move/rename files in vault explanation for 2012

Hi there in the Vault help under moving and renaming files there is the note "All internal dependencies will not be updated until you exit the vault."  I am trying to put together some training for our employees and don't 100% understand this statement.  Is it recommended that every time you move or rename a file you close the vault before going back and getting the latest version our of the vault? 


I want to make sure I give them the correct direction and process to follow when doing training.

 

I am under the understanding too that files do not get repaired until you do a get/checkout from the vault.  Pretty big disappointment here my part regarding that work flow. 

 

Thanks for the help!

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16 REPLIES 16
Message 2 of 17
mikel_martin
in reply to: kmiller

In 2012 the file references are not updated in the files at the time of the move/rename operations.

Instead the files are update as they leave the Vault (download, open, pack and go).

 

Hope this helps.



Mikel Martin
User Experience Architect
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 3 of 17
kmiller
in reply to: mikel_martin

Yeah, that is what I was gathering.  Not a nice solution on our part that is for sure.  We use the vault mainly for inhouse storage of our inventor files.  Basically to help keep the file relationships tied together.  So for example, if you rename a part that is referenced in the assembly.  The assembly is not actually updated until you get the latest version of the files??  Do you recommend then that the user checks the assembly out to make sure the updated version is checked into the vault? 

 

At this point with 2011 we just rename the files and it all updates by itself. 

 

There is another senario where at the end of the project I will move the entire folder into an archive folder in the vault.  After moving these files, I usually just leave them.  Do you suggest that I download them all and recheck them in?

 

Or third question.... does the update file references command that is new do all this updating for you without having to download any of the files? 

 

I want to make sure I instruct our users as to the best practice for our department. 

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Message 4 of 17
mikel_martin
in reply to: kmiller

My apologies I did not explain clearly.

 

In the Vault we create relationships on check-in that represents the relationships from the file. These relationship are storedin the database. Performing a Move/Rename operation in Vault will maintain the relationships in the database. Your uses/where-used information will still show the relationship between the part and the assembly after a Move/Rename.

 

Anytime a user does an operation that causes the file to be downloaded the Vault will update the relationships of the local copy of the file to match those maintained in the Vault.

 

To answer your concern about the user workflow. There is no need to change anything.

Whenever a user Opens or Downloads a file the references will be updated.

 

The Update References command is a tool used to add some information to the Vault relationships of existing data. You will only need to run this tool on a given file once. We need this information when the files are updated durring a download. Because we require this information to maintain the file references, we block the move and rename operations until that information has been updated. During check-in of new data the information will be added automatically.

 

Hope this answers your question.

 



Mikel Martin
User Experience Architect
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 5 of 17
kmiller
in reply to: mikel_martin

I think I follow you.  So even if a part was renamed, the assembly file in the vault that references the old part will now reference the new named part without having to re-check the file in?  It doesn't show a new version number or any comments in the vault on the assembly it updated if this is the case which is why I am so confused on the ordeal.  Kind of leaves the person up in the air as to if it updated or not.  But in reality it is updating and relinking files back to the parent files (if a child file was changed)?

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Message 6 of 17
mikel_martin
in reply to: kmiller

Yes and No.

 

The file that is stored in our server is technically not updated at the time of the rename.

We store enough information about the relationship that we simply (and automatically) update the references the next time the file is used.

 

This means that the part file can be moved/renamed infinite amount of times and the assembly will not be versioned.

It also means that when a part file is moved/renamed and is referenced by a large amount files the rename will happen virtually instantaneously.

 

All of this makes for a much better user experience.



Mikel Martin
User Experience Architect
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 7 of 17
kmiller
in reply to: mikel_martin

Except for us.  Just to get things straight.  The assemblies used to update when there was a file rename change.  So now you do have to make sure you get the latest version of the drawing and/or assembly to make sure the latest and greatest is the last version checked into the vault if you want to save that change?  On our end, we don't just check a couple of versions into the vault when we are at a certain point in the project, they get checked in every day.

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Message 8 of 17
mikel_martin
in reply to: kmiller

You (the user) do not need to update the Assembly or the Drawing as a result of the move or rename (ever). No one can ever see the assembly in a state where it is not fixed. Everytime anyone opens the file, Vault will take over the loading of the children and ensures that the parent will load the child file from its new name/path.

 

In simple terms, the user does not need to worry about the fact that a dependent file has been moved or renamed, ever, for any anyworkflow.

 

If someone modifies the assembly at some point in the future (checks-out and makes a change and checks-in) then the parent fille will be stored with the new name/path information for the child. After this point the Vault no longer needs to update the files on open or download.

 

However, the users will see no preceivable difference in experience for either case.



Mikel Martin
User Experience Architect
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 9 of 17
kmiller
in reply to: mikel_martin

Sounds Good.  Thanks.

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Message 10 of 17
cmcconnell
in reply to: kmiller

I have been using Rename and Move a great deal (on some very large datasets). For the most part, it is 100% better than previous releases. We have not had any broken references. Very happy with the changes.

Mechanix Design Solutions inc.
Message 11 of 17
kmiller
in reply to: cmcconnell

Thank you for the feedback!

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Message 12 of 17
mdurst
in reply to: kmiller

I also think this is a great feature enhancement because of the performance increase except for this problem I have ran into a few times.  Yes, there are best practices to be followed to avoid this, but Vault displays mis-leading information that doesn't appear you can avoid.

 

Here's the scenairo:

 

File that was moved: 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IAM

 

Parent File: 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IDW

 

Moved From: $\Project\Finished Goods\Projector Lifts\Scissor Lift SL and SLX

 

Moved To: $\Project\Fiinal

 

When opening 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IDW, this message is displayed.  This is mis-leading information as it SHOULD be displaying the new path I moved the IAM file to in the Vault.

 

If I say Yes to All, it continues and opens the IAM file from the correct location.


Finished Goods.jpg

 

Here is the bigger problem though:  If the 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IAM exists in the location displayed above on my local machine, Inventor will open it from there FIRST before looking anywhere else.

 

So best practice is to:

  1. Move the file in Vault
  2. Delete the local working folder or file that you just moved
  3. Open the Parent File
  4. Yes to All (on the mis-leading information)
  5. And verify it all opened from the new locations (which it should have)

Note: I have ran the Update References command on this 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IDW, but this did not change the outcome.

Message 13 of 17
mikel_martin
in reply to: mdurst

Questions:

 

When opening are you logged into Vault?

Did you use the Open from Vault command or Inventors native open?



Mikel Martin
User Experience Architect
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 14 of 17
mdurst
in reply to: mikel_martin

Answers:

Yes, i am logged into the Vault through Vault Explorer and Autodesk Inventor.

 

Using the Vault Explorer to open the File.  Have tried a few methods.

- Right-Click>Get/Check Out to get everything local first (Download Only)

- Right-Click>Open on the 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IDW file, Saying Yes or No to check out gives the same result.

 

OR (without the download first)


Right-Click>Open on the 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IDW file, Saying Yes or No to check out gives the same result.

Message 15 of 17
mikel_martin
in reply to: mdurst

Could you try using the Open from Vault within Inventor to open the file?

Do you see the same result?



Mikel Martin
User Experience Architect
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 16 of 17
mdurst
in reply to: mikel_martin

The Open from Vault command through Inventor gives me 2 different results on 2 different files that were moved.

 

1. Not All Ref.jpg

 

It continues to open into Inventor with a result like this:

 

Unresolved.jpg

 

 

If I open this same IDW file by right-clicking it and clicking Open while in the Vault explorer it prompts me with the same dialog box from my very first post saying that it needs to download components from the Vault from the original directory it was moved from.

 

2. Opening 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IDW through the Open from Vault command inside Inventor, opens just fine without any messages, but this was the IDW I had been working with doing my testing so maybe somehow it updated the links.

 

The other weird thing is, is if I open 300251 & 300258 SLX 14 ENCODER LIFT.IDW by right clicking it in the Vault and saying Open, I still get this dialog box.  Something is definitely off.  If you want to do further testing, I can get us access to the environment and we can setup a time to diagnose the issue and look further into it, so you can see for yourself.  Let me know.

 

Finished Goods.jpg

Message 17 of 17
kmiller
in reply to: kmiller

With out a 100% definate answer, I think I have come across this same situation.  I could do some checking if you wanted to confirm results with another system.

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