Vault General Discussion

Vault General Discussion

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Active Contributor
HUSELALU
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎01-22-2013
Message 1 of 10 (362 Views)

File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

362 Views, 9 Replies
02-13-2014 08:33 AM

It looks it's a constantly disscussed subject.

 

Some of the conditions we want are both to lock the files and Items so Item BOM is not changing.

 

The "Apply Item security on related files" is almost the function we want, but the lifecycle states are unfortunatelly fixed to 4.

Its not locking reference files either. A huge dissadvantage when reference files are used for skeleton modelling.

 

How are you using lifecycles in vault?

 

1. Anyone using both Item and File lifecycle separately? Where File lifecycle locks drawings and related files, and the Item lifecycle locks BOM-structure only? 

 

2. Item lifecycle with the "Apply Item security on related files"- function? (Item lifecycle controls the file lock status)

 

3. Only Item lifecycle that locks the BOM? Files are not locked.

 

4. Only File Lifecycle that locks files only? How can we be sure that the BOM is not changing by an accidentaly update?

 

I also refer to this old post: http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Vault-General/Revision-Control-only-on-Items-Vault-Pro-2012/m-p/321547...

 

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cbenner
Posts: 3,421
Registered: ‎04-06-2010
Message 2 of 10 (350 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-13-2014 12:37 PM in reply to: HUSELALU

We use Item lifecycles only.  When an Item is set to Released, any files associated with it are locked in Project Explorer.  Files may not be unlocked or set to WIP unless through an Engineering Change Order.  We are not using BOM's right now... only drawings are set to Items (baby steps).  So I can't say what this does to a BOM.

 

My 2 cents worth.

ChrisB

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Active Contributor
HUSELALU
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎01-22-2013
Message 3 of 10 (335 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-13-2014 11:42 PM in reply to: cbenner

In that case you are using the 2nd version I mentioned. And you are locking the BOM-structure in Item Master. So far so good.

 

But I can see a couple of problem scenarios in front of me:

- Associated reference files (and phantoms) are not locked in Project Explorer.

- Suppose you want to attach the same pdf or xls or any other document for that matter to several different Items. All Items can then controll that attachments lock status. (Maybe this is a good thing since you dont need to find the first Item where that attachment was made)

- It will be a missmatch between Item and file revisions. Item BOM structure will be exported to ERP. But drawings can then have different revision :smileysad:.

 

Active Contributor
HUSELALU
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎01-22-2013
Message 4 of 10 (299 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-17-2014 11:33 PM in reply to: HUSELALU

Autodesk thought I didn't understand the difference between file and item lifecycle so they emaild me this link:

http://help.autodesk.com/view/VAULT/2014/ENU/?guid=GUID-25DCBA63-A602-4093-93F7-A35116B6BE53

 

I was not looking for the help pages. :smileytongue: I know where they are. They are pretty good in some cases, but this time I was asking about which lifecycles are recommended, and how you others are using it.

Distinguished Contributor
tmoney2007
Posts: 247
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 5 of 10 (280 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-26-2014 09:14 AM in reply to: HUSELALU
We use the 4th one. We have our vault integrated with PLM (Note: Not PLM360), so all of the file lifecycles are controlled by workflows in our PLM (Agile).
Properties that are published between the systems come from the files, the BOM comes from the Item because that is the only out of the box way to access the BOM of AutoCAD Mechanical files through the API.

In general, we avoid using 99% of the features of the item master, so it just becomes the place our integration goes to find the BOM, and when the integration manipulates anything on a file, it searches for the item, then does its edits on the primary file on that item.

Personally, I don't think that the item master and change orders are configurable enough to be useful for any group that integrates and cooperates with others.

If you are an engineering company that only needs a means to manage their own content, and doesn't have to worry significantly about large volumes of content moving out of the system on a regular basis, it probably works fine. If you really want granular control based on your particular scenario, its not going to cut it.
Active Contributor
HUSELALU
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎01-22-2013
Message 6 of 10 (273 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-26-2014 11:37 PM in reply to: tmoney2007

Thanks for the detailed answer tmoney2007. Very appreciated!

 

At the moment we are using Vault in the same matter. We have lifecycle on file level and using Item Master to export BOM.

 

Why aren't you using Agile PLM for other Vault functionalities (as Project Explorer). It doesn't have it?

 

We have engineering inhouse but production outsourced, so we need to export data on regular basis. You say that Vault is not enough alone?

Or Vault is not got at all?

Distinguished Contributor
tmoney2007
Posts: 247
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 7 of 10 (252 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-27-2014 10:41 AM in reply to: HUSELALU
A majority of engineers on the selection committee believed that the user interface for vault was significantly better than what was available for Agile (which to be fair, it is.) While Agile is perfectly capable of managing CAD files (there's no magic to what Vault does in that respect,) the inventor and autocad connector programs were a bit immature.  I believe the reason is that not many companies that are of a size to use a PLM solution like Agile are using Inventor.  Because of that, we chose to use vault to manage the files, which is integrated with Agile PLM (the actual Item Master for our company), which is then integrated with Oracle E-Business  Suite as our ERP.  Additionally, our implementations of Vault and Agile are new, and we are upgrading to a new version of Oracle EBS at the same time... it's been an interesting couple years, to say the least...

 

Conceptually, the Engineering Connector for Agile (their file management module) is slightly different.  The user doesn't interact with files in the same way as with vault.  The files are attached to objects within the system.  Rather than the files being the focus, objects (parts and documents) are what is transacted and put through workflows, which is kind of what the Vault Item Master does.  The problem is that it isn't configurable enough to fully take over that job.

 

We are an Engineer to Order company in an industry that requires certified designs.  Because of this, we have a large set of standards that are used as the basis for customer jobs.  We do a huge volume of design work (possibly 5000 new design files a week was one figure I heard) and we fabricate primarily in house. So most of our interfaces are automated and another place vault comes up short (in our experience) is in the API's for those kinds of integrations and the job processor.

 

If you are primarily creating content then putting it out, and you don't have alot of people needing to access live data in the vault (manufacturing groups and the like) Vault can probably be made to work fine. It's really an engineering tool, whereas one of the things PLM is really good for is providing the interaction space for all interested parties.  We have the opportunity to bring manufacturing and procurement (among others) into the loop, which is a big plus, but it requires configurability.

 

We're making it work by taking as many responsibilities away from Vault as we can, and letting Agile do it. We use file lifecycles for file security, and to trigger the integration. Item master get's used to make the BOMs available to the integration.  Everything else is controlled by workflows in Agile.

 

Personally, I would've rather just let Agile manage the files, and work with the company that made the connector to improve it, but... I didn't get to make that decision.

Active Contributor
HUSELALU
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎01-22-2013
Message 8 of 10 (244 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-28-2014 12:14 AM in reply to: tmoney2007

Thanks again for the detailed answer. Its a lot of usefull information. It looks like we are not the only ones who struggles with CAD/PDM/PLM/ERP integration and put the whole business process in place :s.

 

So you only use Item Master for BOM-list. You dont attach any pdf or other docs there? All that is done in Agile?

And all the detailed metadata for procurement and manufacturing. Is it done in Agile also?

Distinguished Contributor
tmoney2007
Posts: 247
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 9 of 10 (226 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

02-28-2014 10:39 AM in reply to: HUSELALU
We wrote a web service internally that allow a URL link to the visualization file in vault. All the metadata gets pulled off of the file object in Vault and transferred to Agile. From there it is either transferred to EBS or referenced by the ERP services that need it via another web service.

We try really hard not to copy files from one system to another. The metadata is a necessary evil because it is all created in the CAD tools, but it needs to be used extensively in PLM and ERP.

I you have other questions you can shoot me a PM. We haven't gone live yet, but we've figured some stuff out and I'd be happy to share.
Valued Contributor
sathersc23
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎05-02-2011
Message 10 of 10 (205 Views)

Re: File AND/OR Item Lifecycle

03-05-2014 08:50 AM in reply to: cbenner

cbenner - how do you get Vault to correctly open historical versions of files? We're using Item only, but I am thinking of adding File Lifecycle on the hope that when we go to open old versions of assemblies, it will pull in the correct old versions of the sub-components.

Sam Sather
CAD Admin/Designer
Inventor 2012
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