creating fusion 360 images that are Z Corp printer ready

[stonemonkeyking]

Hello, 

I have come up against a stumbling block ad I was wondering if you might be able to assist me.  

Fusion 360 is a web application that has a f3d file format and can export file formats igs, iges, sat, step, trp, and atf xml file types.
I have several output files from Autodesk’s Fusion 360 that I would like to print a color object on a Z Corp Spectrum 510.  

I am assuming that the iges or step file formats will likely have the structure and color information packaged together. 

 
Is it possible that one of the tools that Autodesk provides might help in getting the file into the proper color file format zbd, stl, bld, ply, sfx, 3ds, zec,  zpr, and wrl. for a Z Corp Spectrum 510 printer?  

Jim

[schneik-adsk]

With a desing open in Fusion 360, you can right mouse click on the top most node of the the browser and save as STL.

This will save the 3D print file.

In order to color the model you will need to use ZCorp's ZEdit software.

[stonemonkeyking]

Thanks for the great information!  Unfortunately, the stl file format will loose all color information for 3D printing.  Would you happen to have a way to get the color information included so that the color would be printed when the structure is printed?

[stonemonkeyking]

Yes, your suggestion works very well. And as far as coloring objects ZEdit can certainly perform that function but it would be sure great help if there were a VRML *.wrl file export from Fusion 360 available.

[colin.smith]

Hi Jim, 

I know Alias can expor the .zpr file format which is a zcorp file format that handles colour.  I'm assuming you would like to see that export ability in Fusion 360? 

Colin

[stonemonkeyking]

Hello Colin,

Thanks for your follow up.  Yes, it would seem to be a simple addition to be able to add a VRML wrl file format to the export assumng that there isn't a major programming issue with such an addition.  This would address the issue of having to take an image created in Fusion 360 and then importing the file into the Z Corp Zprint program which runs the Z Corp color printers.  

When I first started out on this effort I under estimated the complexities of the issue when trying to read files by the Z Corp ZPrint utility which is used to send file information to the Z Corp Spectrum 510 color 3D printer.  In speaking with Z Corp they defined their own file format, zpr, for the printer to function.  ZPrint provides the ability to handle the following file formats zbd, stl, bld, ply, sfx, 3ds, zec, zpr, and wrl.  

My quest is to find the simplest path from a graphical editing tool to the Z Corp printer for color printing.  One tool that I have found is FormZ which has a zpr print file format included in its file exports. 

Along the way I also started to look at Fusion 360 as tool for use internally for others who would have for a monthly charge a very capable program for their editing and printing needs for color rapid prototyping use.  My initial evaluation of Fusion 360 leads me to several  questions regarding Inventor Fusion no longer being supported and Fusion 360 replacing this product line.  Has there been any consideration for the those who might want to use Fusion 360 off site where they might not be able to obtain an internet connection?  There are several situations where customers will block the use of the Wi-Fi internet as well as not provide local connections either for security reasons.

Regards,

Jim

[stonemonkeyking]

Colin,

How does one get from Fusion 360 to Alias or for that matter Inventor to Alias to be able to test the Alais zpr file format for printing? 

Jim

[colin.smith]

Hi Jim, 

You can export to Inventor file from the dashboard.

• Go to your dashboard and click on the details of a model
• Under the thumbnail you have the option to export

• This will open the export dialog box

• Choose the format you want to export out to in the format drop down

Currently you have the choice between a Fusion F3D, Inventor 2014 IPT, IGES, SAT, SMT, STEP, DWG, DXF and STL.

You can't create an Alias .wire file but Alias will read most of these formats.

• When you have selected the export type hit Export
• You will get a notice that the export has stared and you will get an alert when it is done.
• In the cloud your F3D file is being converted to the file type that you chose.
• If you go back to your home you can see the progress in the right hand side

• When the conversion is done you will see an new item in your activity feed

• This contains the translation report in PDF format.  To download the file to your desktop, click on Download.

Hope this helps.

Colin

[colin.smith]

Hi Jim, 

Fusion 360 has an offline mode which kicks in when an internet connection in not detected.  You don't have access to your cloud dashboard in offline mode but you have access to some of your local models and you can create new ones.  Obviously there is no collaboration with other group members while you are offline.

Colin

[stonemonkeyking]

Colin,

Good evening!  Early this evening, I had a really great conversation with Nathan at the Autodesk Support Team.  We spoke to some of the points of why I am so interested in exploring the directions of where Fusion 360 is developing. I am returning to share some of my thoughts with you at his suggetion to do so. 

I appreciate your help in better understanding how I might get to a VRML wrl file and some of the software tool chain that would have to implemented to get the wrl file format.  I will explore over the next couple of days the option that you have outlined.  What I am trying to avoid is the necessity to have to go through the need to import into one software package to export to another to get where I need to arrive.  

I have many years of working in the drug discovery field as a senior research scientist for a research automation technology group.  Now, I am a part of a biotech startup looking to push further the use of 3D printing for this discipline.  We eventually look to establish a tool for use by a pool of skilled design/fabrication specialists who would flexibly grow and diminish as our needs require.  The current trajectory of Fusion 360 could very nicely allow us to change the number of such CAD users by altering the number of monthly subscriptions of Fusion 360 being used.

These individuals would be tasked with projects that would require Fusion 360 for preparing items for printing on Z Corp color 3D printers.  The use of multiple software packages to import then export repeated multiple times promotes errors and expends valuable time.  My other concern is that software tools undergo program improvements that often jepordize an established file format that once worked in this link of steps to convert a file format to get to the one that is needed. 

I am Autodesk Ultimate Suite, CFD & Mechanical Simulators, Inventor Publisher, and Autodesk Vault professional user.  Autodesk has an exception coverage of software and tools for which I am far from an expert user but a greatful user for the huge sandbox to work in and explore for solutions to the problems that I encounter.  I am watching to watch see where Fusion 360 and 123d are developing.  I didn't necessarily expect to see the all of the same capability of your flagship products.  I would very much like to see the provison of VRML file export for 3D color printing and a stand alone operation Fusion 360 capability. 

Fusion 360 has a tremendous potential for the use in the 3D printing arena.  I was of the generation that experienced the explosion in the home computing area when MITS came out with the Altair 8800.  I saved every penny I could gather and purchased such a kit that had 4K of memory with to my fathers chagrin.  This was the edge of a revolution in technology! 

I believe that we are observing another such opportunity in 3D and 4D printing.  As such the software tools that form the cornerstone of this event will be building the future of technological development.  I like very much the look, ease of use, and capabilities of the current Fusion 360.  It provides all the right tools, comfort of use, and possibly the social network for sharing results and collaborating.

But there is cautionary side to the way in which Fusion 360 is going.  I don't believe that the social networking tools have lived up to there full potential and it is because of the dynamics of human interaction that dictate successful team efforts, project management, and succesful project execution.  I have been apart of many shared desktop engineering development, review, and brainstorming efforts.  In many cases it works because the parties on both sides are committed to its success.  It takes real work for these to work. social netwoking is a bit too loose and free an interaction. I wonder if innovation, hard work, and planning is some times confused with socializing with friends at the local bar.  The effective running of a meeting is a rare skill which many seem to take for granted. I fear that many of the collaboration tools fail because of the lack of focused commitment of its participants. 

Today there are free online academic course ( ie Open Course Ware initiatives coursera.org, edx.org, udacity.com, etc) being mass taught which surveys report that only 8% of the attendees are actually doing the work associated with the online course.  Similarly, how many teleconference meetings have you attended where the parties on either side are only providing partial engagement with the meeting efforts.  This is even true for in-person meeting held on one's own site.  I admit that this is probably a bit more cynical than most but then I have sat in on many such meeting between my role with other companies, national labs, vendors, and university collaborators. Not all such meetings are failures but there are many wher it leaves you wondering what was really achieved.  Social networking tool companies are a bit of a mystery to me and seem to depend on their advertising for earnings.  Is this what Autodesk is thinking about? I am being facetious in this comment.

I do wonder where those who want a desktop version of Fusion will go with everything go on as a web app?  I understand the cost effective repositioning of such an application. I also understand the ease of updating and maintaining a predictable and manageable sandbox for the end use as well as for trouble shooting by Autodesk  So many of the large software vendors like Microsoft 365, Adobe, Norton, and others are looking to convert their yearly updates into month user subscriptions. 

This reminds me of the early days of "Big Iron" computing era evolving to distributed PC now back to the central server approach.  Unfortunately, this reminds of the cautionary tale of outsourcing that has happened in the pharmaceutical industry which makes such good financial sense has also resulted in a fair amount of havoc to it's industry.  While I was working at NIST (formerly NBS) I saw a generation of MBA manager types come it the bureau and start to outsource the work being done in the labs for machine tooling, electronics design/fabricating, glass blowing, and etc.  Initially the cost were lower, managers got promoted for saving money, and slowly internal capabilities disappeared such as custom built high resolution NMR, laser spectroscopy expertise, custom instrument design/fabrication skills and talents were gone and never return because the bureau had now become a more bureaucratic than fundamental research based.  I really wonder what it is that you hope to get by the social networking component of Fusin 360?  

A couple of other thoughts are the use of the Cloud is wonderful resource and everyone is racing in that direction these days. I am sure that there are aspects of the Cloud use that ill only become apparent once it begins to be used.  I can't but help but wonder what are some of its deficits that will be incurred by its implementation.  

Another concern would be that there are many very conservative business, like my former employer in the drug discovery business, who would be very leery about sharing files on the Cloud, running web apps that can't be isolated from the outside world.  The reasons for these concerns are reflected in the news reports  about industrial espionage, NSA leeks, and cyber hackers.

My strong suggestion would be to provide a VRML wrl file export to Fusion 360 for use with 3D color printers.  There is a great survey you might take a look at http://surveys.peerproduction.net/2013/09/3d-printing-survey-2013/ which illustrates some of the forces shaping this interest.  one aspect of this survey shows a very high percentage of user are very interested in color 3D printing.  There are anumberof other very interesting trends that can be observed in this report.  It is well worth looking at.   

Consider a legitimate offline version of Fusion 360 in the line of Inventor Fusion simply because it is very valuable to have something that can be used offline.  The idea of a momentary lapse of internet connection is a great thought but not the same as a stand alone for use by the serious user.  Another all quite often situation is the case where one might be at a secure customers site or not interested in a net connection to do some work.

Well this has been a bit longer than I expected and I hope that this might be food for some thought for the ongoing and maturing Fusion 360 product. 

Best Regards,
Jim

[deyop]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.  The reference survey was very interesting.  Unless i missed it I didn't see any preference for file formats.  I understand your interest in VRML and not wanting to juggle a project between multiple formats.  I would be interested in your comments and others on the forum about the AMF format.  

Additive Manufacturing Format (AMF)

Thanks

[stonemonkeyking]

Hello deyop,

Thank you for your response regarding my post and the included url for the survey done for rapid prototyping.  The survey is the second that has been done by the authors.  The comparison of the 2012 and 2013 surveys shows some very interesting trends.

While working at NIST I participated in a consortium of major instrument and automation vendors working on automation standards for analytical instrumentation.  The effort was called the Consortium for Automated Analytical Laboratory Systems (CAALS).  This was a consensus effort which was led by the NIST for which I was a member from the I E Dupont Research Facility.

While working there we produced standards for analytical instrument capabilities, behavior, communications, and interfacing. One of the most very interesting things that we worked on were communication behavior and standards. I moved on other projects after this work but these standards provided the foundation for a trmendoous amount follow up work based upon the initial work done by CAALS for other efforts still live and thrive today. 

The body of information provided in your link suggest that the Additive Manufacturing Format (AMF) could potentially be a very powerful equallizer and empowering tool standard for  the emerging Additive Manufacturing industry.  How has this idea taken with those at Autodesk and similiar organizations?  One interesting aspectof this standard wil be its acceptance by others and then the adoption by legacy equipment using other standads such as Z Corp printers and the lilke were some how a translator for these will have to be created for them to adhere to the suggested AMF standard.

Regards,

Jim

[stonemonkeyking]

Colin,

Thank you for your suggestion.  I see where there are some further options to export other file formats.  It is interesting to see the Inventor 2014 but not the Inventor 2013 formats.  This is one of my struggles when I the propagation of file formats in newer versions of software where one canget orphaned if there isn't some standard that remains useful for those with legacy equipment print file standards.

This is exactly the reason for the use of a VRML or perhaps a AMF standard as indicated by deyop in http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Get-Help-with-Fusion-360/creating-fusion-360-images-that-are-Z-Corp-pr....

Regards,

Jim

Ps - if you look close the Z Corp printers that I have described in previous postings the 3DS is another standard that it can use.  

[stonemonkeyking]

Colin,

What is your real purpose for the social networking connection for Fusion 360?  There are plenty of forums, social chat rooms, and other venues that are available for connecting with others for support and networking.  All of which is another special skill for the effective users of these vehicles for gathering information and opinions. 

Sure, I can see the collaborative work space being very useful but what data do you have that demonstrates to Autodesk that this is a real game changer?  

Why not do something really breakthrough like what www.kickstarter.com or www.quirky.com are doing like providing incentives for the really good ideas like tee shirts, computer accessories, or even credits that are redeemable towards real items like bonus miles for the airlines.  These might be redeemable for software licenses, computer peripherals, or the such.  I know this sound wild and outlandish but you need some way to elicit serious attention and responses to what you are proposing with Fusion 360 as a social networking tool! 

Further there probably needs to be a Cloud Tag system that highlights the greatest activity for the various ongoing conversations because it is not always the easiest thing to identify where the hot topics are located.  Perhaps the number of incentives airline miles might be a good way to catch peoples attention where all the interest is located. 

Does any of these suggestions elicit a response?

Regards,

Jim

[stonemonkeyking]

Colin,

I hope that things are going well for you these days and that Fusion 360 is moving along as well as expected.  I fired over the bridge of your ship a couple of comment about the following.

1. The significance of Z Corp.. zpr and VRML wrl as suggestions for you and others to consider.

2. The suggestion for an off-line persistent version of Fusion 360 for use where there is no web.

3. Asked some serious questions about the Social Connectivity content.

My comments for the Social Connectivity content, as I reflected in a previous note above, was not meant to cynical or destructive.  I sincerely wanted to start a brainstorming effort to see where Social Connectivity should be going.  I am sure that you folks at Autodesk have some ideas and I would be interested in hearing about them.  As of yet so many of these tools are seemingly treated as toys.  Hence, my comment of airplane miles was really meant to challenge you folks to think about the value of social connectivity to productivity, creativity, and ingenuity. 

Perhaps if there were some means of categorizing those individuals to participate, contribute, and are productive members to an effort should get rewarded in some way.  As I understand it the way quirky (www.quirky.com) works everyone in the collective who assists in the development of their proposal and those contributing get back percentages of the final marketed item from which sales are being generated.  Such individuals would be rewarded, incentives, and further sought out to contribute to ongoing efforts.  Thee efforts might be internal to a group, company, or collective of people work in an online world. 

Regards,

Jim

[colin.smith]

Hi Jim,

With regards to VRML export, is there a reason not to do .zpr?  I know we do this in Alias today. I'm not sure if our translator does VRML.  I'll have to research it a bit.  Either way it would be work to get either file format to export.  In my experience with consumer products companies and universities I haven't seen a lot of Z-Corp color printing going on. That doesn't mean no one is doing color printing.  I just don't hear the request. I'd like to hear from others in the forum as to the need for VRML or .zpr output.

Thanks

Colin

[stonemonkeyking]

Colin,

Yes, the zpr file format is a bit of a specialty file format that Z Corp. uses for their color printer family.  The VRML (wrl) file format is more convenient than the zpr since it is already a standard file format used by others.  Hence the VRML (wrl) format would actually make more sense for those of us using color printing and possibly file interchanges between various software packages. 

Regards,

Jim