3D Sketching - not very intuitive

[3Dpcb]

I really like Fusion 360 and I would like to use this fantastic software more and earlier in the design process. But I think it is a bit difficult, because Fusion 360 is forcing me, far too early in design process to consider physical objects, 2D sketches, sketch planes, and complex 3D snap workflow.

In the early design phase, I need simple tools without technical limitations.
I think a 3D sketch that only consists of lines and splines, is a very valuable as a starting point when exploring new ideas. This is very difficult to achieve with Fusion 360. 

To solve my problem, I use SolidThinking (Evolve) in the concept stage. sT has no problems with the snap in 3D space and it is very easy to edit later as a base for my design.

My question is, whether there is a solution to this in the pipeline or if there is an intuitive way to draw or snap directly in 3D, which I may have overlooked.

I just found this video, but the method seems very complicated:
https://screencast.autodesk.com/Main/Details/ef8b1b23-275b-4c0e-9670-33cf36958cf7

[Oceanconcepts]

I would encourage you to try to explore Fusion’s strengths rather than try to make it replicate how other systems work.  The sketching environment in Fusion seems to me much more a precision development tool than a freeform means of exploring ideas. But the 3D solid/ surface/ sculpt tools in Fusion allow for very flexible free-form modeling and concept development, particularly in the direct mode. It’s less of a drawing metaphor and more of a sculpting or modeling / machining metaphor. I think if you explore the 3D tools in the various Fusion environments, and start in Direct mode, where they are more clearly accessible, you will find it very rewarding. 

That said, I do wish Fusion’s 3D sketching tools were more clearly integrated into the program- like having 3D sketching accessible from the sketch menu rather than having to go to preferences to toggle it on and off. Or having it on all the time, but with the simple sketch menu option to either constrain elements to a plane or not.

[cekuhnen]

I can partically understand his frustration.

After having spend a lot of time with Fusion the slogan design differently I simply see unjust because Fusion feels like a light version of Inventor

repeating the solid modeling approach with 2D planar core approaches and not a truly 3D sketching engine.

Today some of the constraints can work in 3D space and with the new move command "point to point" mode you can have a snap workflow.

But after all it really feels like an old school 2D workflow enhanced with some rushed 3D features and not really a solid 3D curve modeler

like Alias.

Working in Alias with curves and creating surfaces is a breeze - doing the same in Fusion would require a nightmare of construction planes.

I understand that for a certain reasons those planes and this 2D approach for parametric modeling is valid.

But if Fusion should be design differently than this labor intensive and slow process should be combined with a module that lets me as fast

put down profile curves in 3D space with adequate snapping and blend/trim/fillets tools like Alias for example has.

[cekuhnen]

I can partically understand his frustration.

After having spend a lot of time with Fusion the slogan design differently I simply see unjust because Fusion feels like a light version of Inventor

repeating the solid modeling approach with 2D planar core approaches and not a truly 3D sketching engine.

Today some of the constraints can work in 3D space and with the new move command "point to point" mode you can have a snap workflow.

But after all it really feels like an old school 2D workflow enhanced with some rushed 3D features and not really a solid 3D curve modeler

like Alias.

I can in 3D snap constraint two curves together make them smooth or such but in 3D I cannot for example tell the curve handles

to be vertical or perpendicular to the construction plane because vertical or horizontal constraint only works along the 2D sketch plane.

Working in Alias with curves and creating surfaces is a breeze - doing the same in Fusion would require a nightmare of construction planes.

I cannot even in side a sketch rotate it because everything is much based on the 2D sketch.

 

I literealy have to break the profiles apart into separate sketch planes, create an axis between those two end points so I can create a plane along it and start sketching on

this plane after I included the geometry.

In Rhino I simply snap draw a circle between the two horizontal profiles at their end and that was it. Done. In Alias I can make the sketches also align to each other

so when I change one profile it pulls certain CVs with it from a different curve.

I understand that for a certain reasons those planes and this 2D approach for parametric modeling is valid but that part in my work only happens when I give the data to

the engineer and it hardly happens when we design a product - at least where I work.

But if Fusion should be design differently than this labor intensive and slow process should be combined with a module that lets me as fast

put down profile curves in 3D space with adequate snapping and blend/trim/fillets tools like Alias for example has.

That also besides really needed 3d snapping also full 3D translation tools for sketches.

[cekuhnen]

oh great the forum messed up the reply because of time out bugs ...

sorry for the double post

[cekuhnen]

Here is a quick screencast comparing all the steps I need to do in Fusion and Alias

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byzv_NlyKp_2aDNSOE1Mb3J1NU0/view?usp=sharing

If I compare Fusion here to Alias I really have a hard time calling this 3D sketching because so much does not even work

and if you want the tools to work you have to build it in the typical 2D plane manner anyway.

I understand that the advantage of the way Fusion works is the ability to later drive the design with the constraints I created

but those can also easily make it hard to modify the design when I need to break a constraint. This is why I think Fusion

for conceptual work is not ideal when you need to work a lot with curves to skin surfaces.

The rest solid modeling TS to BREP Fusion is pretty much acing it.

[nhfoley]

Going to bump this because it does not seem to have been improved at all in the past year. The previous posters have all really nailed the gripes with 3D sketching in Fusion 360, and it is a stretch to say that it is even 3D sketching at all based on how it is currently implemented. Passing it off as a 'different modeling paradigm' isn't at all valid either - as others have said, virtually every serious modeling program has addressed 3D sketching more powerfully than Fusion 360 - Rhino, Alias, and Solidworks all have very different modeling strategies, and have solved 3D sketching in their own (better) ways.

The one thing that isn't discussed above, though, is the most frustrating aspect of 3D sketching in Fusion 360: It already has a very powerful set of tools that could be used for 3D sketching controls! The "Edit Form" tools within the Sculpt interface (AKA TSplines) are incredibly powerful for manipulating 3D curves with precise control. They just aren't allowed to be used in that way in Fusion 360. In Rhino, once you have installed the TSplines plugin, you can use those same manipulator tools for all kinds of geometry, giving you that extremely powerful interface when you want to manipulate 3D splines, lines, arcs, whatever. 

The Edit Form manipulators should not be limited to the Sculpt form environment. You should let it be possible to use those tools to create and modify 3D sketches... just like you can in other TSplines implementations. Doing otherwise is actively crippling your product. 

[jjurban55]

Wanted to mention something that you may find comes in handy sometimes.  I discovered in this video

that it's possible to use a Tspline mesh as "scaffolding" for 3d splines and what not.  In this example I used it as body position nodes

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-and-documentation/cad-cam-this-pattern/m-p/5705442

Just something to keep in mind that I thought was pretty cool. 

Jesse