Exporting to Access

[tfjield]

I'm using Multiphysics 2013, and I'm trying to use the Database Translation to translate the Foxpro database format into a Microsoft Access 2000 format, but I'm receiving the following error:

Error # 53:  File now found

Error occurred executing:  C:\Program Files\Autodesk\Simulation 2013\Alg_2000.exe

-parms:"C:\Users\tfjield\AppData\Local\Temp\Parm0"

A following dialog says that the Access 2000 translater is missing.

When I look in the Simulation 2013 folder, the program file Alg_2000.exe is missing.

I have tried translating to Access 97 as well, but I receive the following error:

Error attempting to replace table Model in database

<path>\ds

Where <path> is the path to my model configuration.

Anybody else have any luck with translating to Access?  Any betters ways to do this?  I can export to text, but the columns don't have headers, and I haven't found the documentation as to what's what.  I figured browsing the databases would be the best option.

Thanks!

[PipePakPat]

My understanding is that you having problems using the Autodesk database translation utility?  I would like to be of assistance, but I would like to gather more information first.  I have written many programs to access the Autodesk (Algor) database files and make changes.  Please describe what you would like to accomplish so that I may provide you with options.  Perhaps the method you are using is the best method, or there may be other methods which may be more appropriate.

[tfjield]

Hi Pat,

Thank you for the response.  From your question, I would like to break this into two parts.

First, I would like to be able to export the database to a format other than text.  So far, the only export that works is to text.  I cannot export to Access 2000 or Access 97, and thus it appears that some basic functionality of the Database Translator is broken.  There are many reasons why this might be desirable.  Please see the details of the original question.  Perhaps I'm missing a file?

Second, to address specific issues, I'm attempting to perform a Transient Mass Transfer analysis.  There are two problems that I've been having.

Problem #1.  Material Diffusivity

I cannot change the Material Diffusivity through the Simulation Interface.  It lets me check or uncheck the Use Default button, but I cannot change the value.  I have asked about this question in another thread, but I didn't address the following database issue.  I exported the database to text and found the values in Model.csv.  For example, "Mass.Egroup(1).Species(1).Material.Diffusivity."  It appears that -1 is used to represent Use Default?  I changed these values in the .csv files and imported back to .dbf, but the values in the interface were still not changed, nor was the status of the Use Default checkbox, for any of the parts in the model.

If I translate to text, change the values, translate back to .dbf, then translate back to text, my values are still there.  But if I run Simulation, the values get reset to default.

So the real question is:  How do I change the Material Diffusivity values for the parts?  Seems like Simulation is fighting me.

Problem #2:

In my model, I want to have two different sets of boundary conditions.  In one case, I want to have a surface flux coming from a surface on Part 1 (we'll call this boundary condition #1), and in another case, I want a surface flux coming from a surface on Part 2 (boundary condition #2).  I first ran the model with boundary condition #1.  Then I suppressed that boundary condition and created boundary condition #2.  But when I ran the model, boundary condition #1 was still active and boundary condition #2 was ignored.  So I deleted boundary condition #1, and it was STILL active.  So I deleted boundary condition #1 and #2 and boundary condition #1 was STILL active!

When I translate the database to text, I can see in the Model.csv file and in the ElemCond.csv file that boundary condition #1 still exists, even though it's been deleted from the Design Scenario in Simulation.

So the real question is:  How should I control boundary conditions, since it appears that the interface doesn't represent what's in the database?

Thank you for your help!

[John_Holtz]

One thing to keep in mind is that the interface contains the input; the databases that you want to translate contain the "output" from the interface. That is, the input goes from the interface to the databases to the processor. (There are some exceptions, but I think everything you are fighting is stored in the interface (.FEM) file.)

For problem 1, what happens if you use the default value that you entered under the "Species" branch in the browser instead of trying to bypass the default?

For problem 2, please archive your model and post it to your reply. See "Create, Post, or Provide an Archive of your model". I was not able to reproduce this problem in my test model.

[tfjield]

Hi John,

Problem 1:  The model runs fine using the default values for the different materials, but the actual diffusion coefficients in the various materials in my model vary by a couple orders of magnitude.  I can't tell how far off the result is, since I can't run the model using the right values.

Problem 2:  I could provide a copy of the model in confidence, but I am unable to post it to a public forum as it contains proprietary information.  (You probably hear that a lot!)  Some more information that might help, though...  I was able to remove the one boundary condition (after it was already deleted from the interface) by translating the database to text, editing the ElemCond.csv and Model.csv files to remove those boundary conditions, and then translating back to .dbf.  Also, I have installed Simulation 2013 x64 SP1.  I don't know if the problem existed before the update.  I have reinstalled Simulation and I'll see if the problem still exists.

Thank you!

[tfjield]

John, I've got more info regarding Problem #2.  If I build a simple model and test it, it works fine.  Suppressing the boundary conditions works, the model gives me the zero value error, and the simulation terminates.

I have rebuilt my model by starting fresh, re-importing my solid model, meshing, etc.  With my more complicated model when I suppress the boundary condition it refuses to acknowledge the suppressed status.  I do not yet know how complicated the model needs to be for this to happen.

[PipePakPat]

I have sent you a personal e-mail through the product support portal to gather your original model's archive file.

In regard to the database translation utility; it should be noted that John's comments are correct.

Autodesk Simulation Mechanical/Multiphysics (Algor) has the Simulation interface, which writes data to the model's *.fem file, and also data to the *.ds_data\1\ds.mod\Model.dbf table (where "1" reflects the design scenario number).  The content of the other four tables found in the ds.mod directory, are created when the model is either "Checked" or "Analyzed" from within the interface.  This data is overwritten each time either one of these actions are taken.  Only modifications to the "MODEL" table are retained.  To clarify, every time the analysis is run, or if the model is "Checked" into the Results Environment, the following four tables are "Zapped" (cleared) and re-written: NODES, ELEMENT, NODECOND and ELEMCOND.

When a model is "Checked" or "Analyzed" then the following decoding process occurs.  The model's ds.mod\MODEL.dbf table is read along with the *.fem file, which is read as input to create the ds.mod\group.esh file, which is in turn used as input to generate the NODES, ELEMENTS, NODECOND, and ELEMCOND tables.  These four tables, along with the MODEL table are read by the analysis processor, which performs the analysis, then writes the output files in the *.ds_data\1\ directory.  The Results Environment displays the finite element model and reads directly from the five tables described in the ds.mod directory and any result files available.

I'm looking forward to reviewing your geometry and addressing your issue.

[tfjield]

Hi Pat,

I have uploaded the archive of the model to the FTP site you provided in your email.

You'll notice that there are three Load and Constraint groups.  1 is a surface concentration (a sink), and 2 and 3 are surface fluxes.  I would like to be able to choose which surface flux (2 or 3) is active so I can compare relative concentrations in the results.  In the archive provided, it was last run with both surface fluxes, 2 and 3, suppressed.  I expected that Simulation would give me a zero results error and terminate, as there is no surface flux boundary condition set, but instead, you can see in the results that there are still concentration gradients present.  They're not exactly the same as when the surface fluxes aren't suppressed, though...

Actually!  I may have found the problem as I was writing this...  It reminded me of another bug I had noticed!

My two boundary conditions, 2 and 3, each contain two faces.  When I suppress one boundary condition, it appears to be suppressing ONLY ONE of the faces under each Load and Constraint group, NOT ALL of them.

The similar bug is as follows:  If I create a selection group of four parts, for example, then I click on the selection group and choose Edit -> Color, for example, only the FIRST item in the selection group will be edited.  The remaining three items will not be changed.

I bet what's happening when I suppress the boundary condition is that only the FIRST face in the boundary condition is being suppressed, and not the second face.

I hope this helps!!

[tfjield]

Hi Pat,

Thank you for the information regarding the ElemCond.csv files and the Model.csv files.

I understand that the reason I was able to remove the other boundary conditions was because of my edits to Model.csv, not the edits to ElemCond.csv.

Regarding my first problem, though, I was not able to edit the Material Diffusivity by editing Model.csv and translating back to .dbf.  Perhaps, as John suggested, Model.csv is only an output of the material diffusivity values that are actually stored in the .fem file?

[PipePakPat]

This is how the interface is supposed to interact with the processor.

First, one defines "Species" from the Model Tree above the part definitions.  This action creates variables in the following form located in the design scenario's "ds.mod\MODEL.dbf" file:

Mass.Master.Species(1).Material.Diffusivity

Then, from within each part, all defined "species" are listed, and one can indicate their concentration and either use the default diffusivity define in the master record, or enter a user-defined value.  The following variable would then be created within that design scenario's "ds.mod\MODEL.dbf" file:

Mass.Egroup(1).Species(1).Material.Diffusivity

The processor would always read the per part (Egroup) diffusivity value when running the analysis.  This value would either reflect the "Master" value if the "Default" option was active on a per part basis, or would reflect the user defined value if the "Default" option was not active and one typed a new value.

It appears there were two problems associated with your issue.

The first problem is that the 2013 interface does not allow a user to enter a user-defined diffusivity.  So the only real option is to have he "Active" checkbox enabled or not enabled.

The second problem is that the processor only reads the "Master" diffusivity value during the analysis, so entering an "Egroup" variable is of no benefit.

Both of these problems have been documented and forwarded to development.

The work-around is as follows.

One can define as many "Master" species as one chooses from within the interface just above the part definitions.  Your model has 17 parts, so if each part would use a different diffusivity, then one would define 17 "Master" species.  From within each part's "Species Definition" screen, one would uncheck the "Active" option for all "Master" species that don't apply and choose "OK".

All other data will be considered appropriately. 

It should also be noted that Autodesk does offer another CFD solution entitled "Autodesk Simulation CFD", which was formally CFDesign.  This product offers a more robust solution and provides this analysis capability.  Please let me know if you have further questions.

[tfjield]

Hi Pat,

Thank you for following up on this.

The workaround you suggested confuses me...

I have a question regarding including multiple Master species.

I'm not quite clear on how the various species interact with the model, specifically at boundaries.

In the online help, it says, "Note:  The mass transfer analysis is calculating the concentration of substance A within substance X, substance B within substance X, and so on. Substance X is not one of the species in the analysis. Likewise, the diffusivity is based on the substance within substance X."

This makes sense to me.  However, if I follow your workaround above, and I have substance A active within part X, and I have substance B active within part Y, will the distribution of A within X and B within Y satisfy the appropriate boundary conditions between the two parts?  Concentrations will be continuous and mass flux will be preserved?

If I have a boundary condition, such as a mass flux, or surface concentration, I must indicate which species the boundary condition refers to.  If I have multiple species, as your workaround suggests, will the boundary conditions apply to all of them?

I was under the impression that by including multiple species I was actually modeling the diffusion of multiple substances through my model simultaneously, such as oxygen and nitrogen diffusing through a polymer.  Is this incorrect?

Thanks again!

[Joey.X]

hi, tfjield, 

Hope I can answer partial of you questions.

In SIM-MECH/MP's mass thansfer, it allows multiple species (say A,B and C) co-existed in assembly (i.e, with multiple parts). 

There is a limitation in software that the there are no coupling(or called interaction) among multiple species, this may happens in chermical reaction so that the decreasing of concentration one species A may convert to the increase of specie B's concentration. In other words, multiple species are independent.  For modeling and intepreting results, any boundary condition for a species influences the domain concentration changes for this species only.

The model setting variables for mass transfer is a lttle more compilicated than other analysis type because of the multiple link variables have to be maintained correctly between species definitions, part based modified diffusivity and surface/part based BCs to some predefined species etc. 

As a workaround using excel to modify model settings, it may work if doing it correctly it is also risky from my point of view.

Thanks, 

[tfjield]

Thanks, Joey.  That's what I thought.  I will make a simple test case model to confirm, but other than that, I think I'm just stuck until the problem with the interface is fixed.

Thanks again.

[PipePakPat]

I apologize, as my previously suggested work-around was not valid.  A "like" globally defined species must be "active" in every part for which that species will diffuse.  My previous work-around prescribed to define a unique global species that only have that global species "active" on a per part basis.  This is not correct, since that species would not propagate through adjacent parts.

I have tested this functionality and have verified that the user-defined diffusivity is NOT considered by the processor, which would need to be addressed before any other work-around would be effective.  In this light, I suggest that you refer to the functionality provided by the Autodesk Simulation CFD (formally CFDesign) towards a more immediate solution to this issue.

[Joey.X]

As work around from broken UI to input part based diffusivity, one can manually editing AGSDB variable(from MODEL.dbf) 

This is the correct format to be accepted by processor

Mass.Egroup(i).Species(j).Diffusivity value

rather this one  

Mass.Egroup(i).Species(j).Material.Diffusivity  value

where i is part ID and j is the specie ID. 

[tfjield]

Hey Joey,

That sounds promising!  I haven't been able to test, yet, but I'll report back when I do.

Thanks,

Todd

[tfjield]

Hi Joey,

I translated the database from .dbf to .txt, added the appropriate lines (Mass.Egroup(i).Species(j).Diffusivity for all parts i), and then translated back to .dbf.

When I run the model, the log reports that all Part Based Mass Diffusivities are equal to the default value, not the values specified by either Mass.Egroup(i).Species(j).Diffusivity or Mass.Egroup(i).Species(j).Material.Diffusivity.

In the database file:

Mass.Egroup(1).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(2).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(3).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(4).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(5).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(6).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(7).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(8).Species(1).Diffusivity	4.52E-06
Mass.Egroup(9).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(10).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(11).Species(1).Diffusivity	8.18E-05
Mass.Egroup(12).Species(1).Diffusivity	8.18E-05
Mass.Egroup(13).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(14).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(15).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(16).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(17).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(18).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(19).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491
Mass.Egroup(20).Species(1).Diffusivity	0.000491

From the log file:

 **** Model information for Species  1
      Species ID in Database.................... =    1
      ==== Part   1 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =    1
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   2 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =    2
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   3 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =    7
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   4 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =    8
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   5 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =    9
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   6 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =   10
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   7 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =   12
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   8 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =   14
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part   9 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =   15
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04
      ==== Part  10 ====
      Part ID in database....................... =   17
      Species activation in this part........... =    T
      Part based mass diffusivity .............. =    4.9100E-04

4.91E-4 is the default diffusivity for Species 1.  (Note some parts are suppressed.)

Should the log file match the database?

Thanks.

[Joey.X]

Hi, tfjield, 

This is interesting, I did dig in a liitle deep and find out info below, 

After changing AGSDB manually,

(a)    If you run model from UI, the UI workflow (mesh, decoding, ..)  overwrites the new inputted DB  variable, and the trick does not work and your added variables are gone.

(b)    Run model from command line, “asim installation folder”/frun04.exe <path to your node>\ds –run, the added variables can work effectively.

Hope this works for you.

Regards, 

[Joey.X]

Attached a screen shot indicating it works by running from command line.

[tfjield]

Awesome, Joey!  Yes, that worked, once I ran it from the command line.

Thank you!  I'm back in business!

Todd