Creating a new beam cross section

[1111111222222222222]

Can anybody tell me how to create a new cross section in Element definition using User defined option? I mean something like this (aluminium profil) which I put here. I calculated all cross section proporties but I don't know how to import to Autodesk Multphysics Simulation. I want to have this section with a picture below.

Very thank for any help 

Merry Christmas!

bross

[S.LI]

Not sure what you are talking about is MES or linear static (LSS).

There are several differences about beam elements in them.

The following link is for MES beam.

http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Autodesk_Simulation/enu/2012/Help/0220-Setting_220/0289-Setting_289/029...

It shows examples for how to define a general cross-section beam, as seen in your attachment. At that place, you can input the geometry info, but not cross section properties.

For LSS, I guess you can only input cross section properties calculated by yourself (such as J, I_xx etc.), instead of the raw geometry information.

Hopefully, you can find more details in WIKI or local product help.

[1111111222222222222]

Ok. I have frame like this (see attachment:frame). I want to replace each line by aluminum profil where profil cross section looks as belowe picture (see attachment: cross section). ANd here is my question where I must put this section to replace each line in Autodesk simulation multiphysics to solve problem as a frame. I know how to do in Autodesk Inventor and for me isn't a problem. I try to do in ASM but I don't know how to do or how to define profil. I try to understand reading Autodesk WikiHelp in section: (Specify Cross-Sectional Properties of Beam Elements) but for me is little incomprehensible. In other way it's very simple define any cross section in Feamp but here I must do in ASM. If anybody shows me on a simple example each step how to define cross section maybe I could understand. Thanks for help

[S.LI]

Hi,

1.) you need to decide the analysis type, linear (LSS) or nonlinear (MES).

2.) draw your frame in FEA Editor, and set the part as beam elements. There is no difference between LSS and MES at this step

3.) edit the beam cross-section in element definition. To do this in LSS and MES is different. LSS only accepts pre-calculated properties, such as J, I_xx etc.

4.) apply loads and constraints and do the simulation.

Please let us know if you have any problem to follow the above steps

[1111111222222222222]

I would like to thank you S.Ll  for help. I done (drew) beam sross-secion in nonlinear (MES) option. I have never heard about this before and that I have done in LSS option. Everything came out very well. Last question I want to know where I can check in my geometry cross-section all parameters like moment of interia and so on which progam calculated? Does program  able to calculate all parameters based on cross-section geometry imported form Inventor to Simulation?

Thank

bross   

[S.LI]

Only cross-section parameters are not enough for a general nonlinear analysis, such as elastoplastic nonlinear material. So in MES, we use the details geometry information, instead of those parameters.

For checking these parameters in MES, you might try

1.) to check ds.al (not ds.alg) file to see if there is any output there ( I think they should be there, but not 100% sure).

2.) After inputting your data, and coming back to element definition dialog, you might see these parameters there.

I'll double check this later. 

[1111111222222222222]

Thank

I checked my file ds.al and there is all parameters:

C.G. of the Section at Y= 3.2986E-02 Z= 1.3039E-02
Area Ixx Iyy Izz Torsional Constant
.32100E-03 .92796E-07 .39126E-07 .53670E-07 .39904E-09 

But I would like to know  if is possibility to create more advanced aluminium profil something like this below doesn't use "Specify Cross-Sectional Properties of Beam Elements" option in nonlinear MES?

[S.LI]

In MES, this is the only way I know to simulate a nonlinear general cross-section beam.

Not just ASIM MES, other FEA packages also need the equivalent information to do nonlinear simulations for non-standard cross-section beams. The only difference among packages is the way to input geometry data.

Do you have any suggestion or details on "other ways"?

thanks.

[1111111222222222222]

I thought that in Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics is very simple to define and create a new profil like above I decribed in third post. i done in Autodesk inventor, created and use this profli shown belowe in file by me. I hope that in the future programes implamend this opportunity in Autodesk Simulation 2013 something like this Autodesk Robot Structure.

In only me opinion this part require polishing up.

Thank

[John_Holtz]

Hi 111222,

Out of curiosity, what are you doing in the analysis? What aspect requires a nonlinear analysis?

[S.LI]

John is right.

If "nonlinearity" is not so strong in your model that a linear simulation could be good enough.

You may try the beam element in LSS, which only request these geometry parameters instead of details.

It could simplify your simulation.

[1111111222222222222]

Yes, John is right, I don't want to do using nonlinear option but only linear. In next step I have to in Element definition and cross section option to define my profil proporties such as: J1, I2, I3, S2, S3 which I compute manualy from aliuminium profli section. I recive beam without geometry and I will predict max. stress. 

I think that  isn't other way to do this.

In the same option is locate scross section library and sectin database, where there is user defined. How does it work ? and what does it mean a file with extension .dbf ?

Greetings,

bross 

[S.LI]

Hi, 11...22...,

I'm not sure I got your meaning correctly here. Standard library and user-define are another two ways to input geometry information.

With user-define, you can only input simple shape, such as round, pipe etc.

Library could provide some a little bit complicated shapes, such as I, C, 2L etc.

For a very general shape, you have to do it with our previous discussions.

[1111111222222222222]

Yes, S.LI you understood correctly. By the way, why this (geometry shape only) was put in nonlinear option MES not in Linear too.

Greetings,

bross 

[S.LI]

In general, nonlinear calculation is much more complicated than Linear one, so it requests more information.

Of course, if everything is in linear stages, for the sense of results, nonlinear simulation downgrades to linear one.

For example, if the deformation in beam is NOT only elastic, and could go into plastic stage, the shape is important now, which is used to decide the places plasticity initializes and how it propagates.