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Please help direct the future direction of multiphase modeling?

13 REPLIES 13
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Message 1 of 14
derrek.cooper
715 Views, 13 Replies

Please help direct the future direction of multiphase modeling?

We have been introducing multiphase simulations over the last two releases. In 2014, we introduced "free surface" to address tank sloshing applications that folks in the pressure vessel, oil/gas industry were asking for. In 2015, we tackled refrigerants as we saw more demand in the heat exchanger space. As you can appreciate, multiphase is a wide open field. We've been very deliberate to go after specific problems driven by customers looking for this sort of sophistication. In the spirit of our upfront CFD methodology, we have automated as much of the process as possible, without being restrictive. I'm interested in where you think we should go next. There are a variety of paths to take. Looking forward to your input.
Derrek Cooper
Director, Inventor Products
13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14
OmkarJ
in reply to: derrek.cooper

Great to see where this is going!

 

I would personally like to see the dispersed-continuous phase models in Eulerian framework given some more attention. For example

 

1) Air bubbles in water or sand particles in gas etc (with two way coupling, i.e.gas and sad influencing with each other). It would be interesting if different models for different forces are included (drag, lift, turbulence dispersion?)

2) Additionally, the macroscopically separated mixtures like oil in water etc should also be considered...

 

It would be of course imperetive here to include surface tension in the formulation of models as this will strongly guide the interfacial interaction.

 

We get a lot of such enquiries from clients for filtration of such multiphase flows which we can't consider because of the limitations in the software.

 

Thanks

Omkar

Message 3 of 14
nhahn
in reply to: derrek.cooper

The times I have needed this (before the present capability) were:
- modeling phase change materials, such as waxes, in heat absorption scenarios... I know this is used in the transport industries and architectural field too. I used an approximation of a step-change in specific heat, which isn't bad, but isn't strictly right either. And I'd like to be able to use it in rotomolding or other situations where the melt fluid flows (that are not as specialized as Moldflow for injection molding).... we do this by experiment now.
- trying to model the latent heat cooling effect and humidity changes of a through-flow humidifier. The existing condensation model was not applicable and I couldn't account for the humidity of the air into the humidifier using inlets & outlets. This is relevant for data centers as well as more typical architectural applications.

Message 4 of 14
sgold
in reply to: nhahn

The ability to handle changes in pressure and temperature and volume all at the same time.  Example being a fluid in a piston that is changing volume where the fluid enters at one temperature, but there's a different exit temperature.

Scott G.

Using Inventor 2013/2014 and Vault Basic since 2012
Using Simulation Flow 360 since 2013 (sparingly, bear with me please)
6 years Solidworks (v2006-v2010)
10 years Pro-Engineer (v13-WF2) w/ Intralink (2.0-3.0) w/ Pro/Mechanica
2 years of Mechanical Desktop
AutoCAD since R12
First professional CAD: DrafixCAD
Message 5 of 14
dhalls001
in reply to: derrek.cooper

How about natural evaporation?

Message 6 of 14
derrek.cooper
in reply to: dhalls001

Evaporation comes up from time to time. Do you have a specific application in mind?

I find condensation comes up more often in AEC applications.
Derrek Cooper
Director, Inventor Products
Message 7 of 14
Royce_adsk
in reply to: derrek.cooper

I like Omkar's #2.

 

We do a decent job of mixing, but being able to unmix seperable fluids like oil/water does come through support more often then the other points mentioned so far.

 

 



Royce.Abel
Technical Support Manager

Message 8 of 14
hs.simanto
in reply to: derrek.cooper

My vote will be for condesation in AEC modelling, multiphase materials and yes; surface tennsion too 🙂 simulation CFD will be more fun with these features 🙂

Simanto
Message 9 of 14
Royce_adsk
in reply to: hs.simanto

Have you looked at the condensation results in Humidity analysis?



Royce.Abel
Technical Support Manager

Message 10 of 14
Royce_adsk
in reply to: Royce_adsk

I would be curious as to what applicaiton you find that surface tension is critical?

 

Thanks,



Royce.Abel
Technical Support Manager

Message 11 of 14
dhalls001
in reply to: dhalls001

Hi,

 

It would be great to be able to simulate the evaporation and then condensation formed due to a free volume of fluid (flowing or stationary), depending on geometry, heat, flow and atmospheric conditions.

Particularly to be able to evaporate, using the solar heating module already incorporated in the solver.

 

The aim of this simulation would be to obtain the evaporation rate depending on geometry and conditions, and also determine the location and quantity of condensation (which is already available in the solver).

 

Regards,

DH

Message 12 of 14
Royce_adsk
in reply to: dhalls001

Thanks for the clarification!



Royce.Abel
Technical Support Manager

Message 13 of 14
hs.simanto
in reply to: Royce_adsk

Hi Royce Abel!

Sorry, i haven't checked at the condensation results in Humidity analysis. Is there any tutorial of help link regarding this?

Thanks! 🙂

Simanto
Message 14 of 14
Royce_adsk
in reply to: hs.simanto

I don't think there is much in detail around humidity, but here are the guidelines: http://help.autodesk.com/view/SCDSE/2015/ENU/?guid=GUID-599627EC-C556-42DC-9415-BB50BFCBFFC8

 

We'll see about going into more details on this model type in a future hangout.

 

Thanks!

 



Royce.Abel
Technical Support Manager

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