Synchronization error ???

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

Hi All,

Using DM 14/01/2008 regulation in the Real reiforcement module the update process of RC elements after re-calculation lf the structure always gives this error.

Any suggestion ??

Thanks

[Artur.Kosakowski]

Could you attach a sample model with such issue please? Thank you.

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

HI Artur,

I send you enclosed the model in which I managed to recreate the error. The error happens when you try to calculate the real reinforcement for all columns for the second time selecting them and should be something like the following picture. See also the attached clip

are the results valid ???

Thanks

[Artur.Kosakowski]

Try to delete Column 12

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

hello artur,
thanks for the suggestion but I think it would be helpful to know why the error occurs, if the walking around is to delete the first column of the list and if the results are in any case reliable.
This is because I was able to accidentally reproduce the error on a small model to send you but I currently have a model of a structure with dozens of columns that has the same problem.
thanks

[Artur.Kosakowski]

I can try to determine the reason but I would need to know the steps that cause this situation to happen. Would it be possible for you to describe the sequence of actions to follow please?

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

On my computer:
1) when you open a model saved when you was in real reinforcement module and reopen and when you update the concrete elemnts error 01 occurs (see the video)
2) if you update the model calculation, update the concrete elements and then make the element calculation 02 occurs (synchronization error - see the video)

Thanks

[Artur.Kosakowski]

Thank you for the movie but this is the situation as it happens in this file. What I want to do is to determine what caused it to happen. I made the following actions trying to simulate the workflow I assumed you made:

1. Opening file

2. Deleting all columns from the RC Column Design module

3. Calculating model

4. Selection of bar 12 and exporting it to the RC Column Design module

5. Selection of all columns and exporting it to the RC Column Design module with grouping

6. Calculations of reinforcement for all of these columns

7. Change of loads in the model

8. Calculations of the model

9. Update of all columns

10. Calculations of reinforcement

No error reported.

Could you tell me if you can see any difference in the way I made my test and the way you were working wit the file?

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

Hi Artur

I will try to describe the procedure that generates the error on my computer. keep in mind that the error is quite erratic caused by a sequence of commands I have not yet well understood. On the file attched the sequence that causes the error is:
1) Open the the file attched (I think is the same file you already have) 
2) In the structure select the bar 12 and go to realreinforcement module;
3) Go back to the structure and select all the bars 9 10 11 12 (that are all in the same plane) and go to the real reinforcement module. You will have the bar 12 alone and the goup 9..12.
4) Apply to all columns in the parameter set NTC2008 (I think the problem is related to the setting of the calculation of shear forces due to the plastic moments)
5) Calculate the reinforcement for all the columns and the error should appear. Anyway the reinforcement of the columns is calculated. (it is correct? .. se the next point)
6) After the error the secion of the capacity of the column is considered insufficent while in the first run is considered correct ?

Please let me know

Thanks gabriele

[Artur.Kosakowski]

Hi Gabriele,

4) Apply to all columns in the parameter set NTC2008 (I think the problem is related to the setting of the calculation of shear forces due to the plastic moments)

as NTC2008 set is not saved in the file I assumed the following parameters:

5) Calculate the reinforcement for all the columns and the error should appear. Anyway the reinforcement of the columns is calculated. (it is correct? .. se the next point)

With such parameters I'm able to get the synchronization error as well (I haven't been able to check its influence yet but if the results for only column 12 imported alone and the group 9to12 imported alone are the same as for the calculations of column 12 and 9to12 together then I would assume it is irrelevant).

6) After the error the section of the capacity of the column is considered insufficent while in the first run is considered correct ?

Then I tried to run calculations of reinforcement again but in my case the result was the same as for the point 5 (both column 12 and group 9 to 12 passed)

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

Hi Artur,

you're right. I didn't realize that when you update the RC elements the calculation options remain undefined,  the reinforcement parameters setting are instead preserved.

PICT01 - Parameters after RC element update

Thanks

[Artur.Kosakowski]

For seismic design of RC Column Robot tries to generate concrete nodes checking the numbers of its top and bottom nodes beams that have already been imported from to the RC Design module. As this functionality is not supported for groups of columns the synchronization error is displayed.

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

I see... but the result of the calculation are reliable ? The reiforcement si calculated are the same of the chain or the single element ?
Thanks

[Artur.Kosakowski]

The currently supported workflow for seismic calculations of RC Columns is that each of columns is calculated separately. Neither chains of columns nor grouped columns are currently supported. If you intend to work with either of them I would suggest that you compare results with those obtained for single columns.

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

Okay. I hope, however, that it will be considered a bug and fixed soon.

[Artur.Kosakowski · Accepted solution]

It is considered as the development request which has been added to the wish list. 

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

[GabrieleNovembri1027 · Accepted solution]

Hi Artur
It seems to me that the message synchronization error is more related to a bug rather than a user wish. Anyway I hope it will be soon possible to design columns grouped by geometry or by chain also in seismic areas.
I can guarantee that group more than 200 columns manually is not a simple matter

Thanks

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

Hi All,

No news  ????

Thanks

[Artur.Kosakowski]

I haven't got any new information.

[GabrieleNovembri1027]

Hi Artur,

I apologize but I am forced to insist about the matter. According to what you said we did a simulation of the workflow your proposed. The model used as test has 205 columns.

These are the time required for each phase of the workflow you propose:

1)      RC module import in 5 minutes;

2)      Selecting all columns and setting of the reinforcement model takes about 20 minutes

3)      Selecting all columns and setting the calculation model takes again about 20 minutes

4)      Selecting all columns and setting the instability model takes again about 20 minutes

5)      Selecting all columns and setting the storey parameters model takes again about 20 minutes

5)      Calculation of columns takes 4 minuts

The importing process of columns in the RC module takes totally about an one hour and twentyfour minutes.  It seems to me that the proposed workflow is not realistic nor practical. Then You have to  manually group columns according to geometry and select the column with the worst case group by group. The process takes hours.

Are you really sure that this is the workflow that Autodesk offers to calculate of RC columns ?.

Thanks