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Valued Contributor
sergey.churilov
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎04-12-2012

Substructure saving - Design of panels

557 Views, 9 Replies
04-12-2012 09:50 PM

On a large RC model with more than 230.000 FE which consist of Bars and Panels (Slabs and Walls) the design of RC elements according EC2 last 'forever' or more than 6 hours. I noticed that if I save a substructure from that model (e.g. bars only) the design finishes in less than 5 minutes.

When trying to save substructure with all panels only the Status bar displays Results: Out-of date although the results are available in the original model and in the substructure with bars only.
If I save sustructure with one panel thickness, then the Status bar displays Results: Available which is Ok. Then during the design almost half of the panels have errors: 'Incomplete results for panel no.xx' and 'Incorrect reinforcement direction for panel no.xx' Also, after the design finishes, the Status bar displays Results:none and no Reinforcement Maps can be presented.

When design is perfomed on the original model for the panels which were marked as with errors I do not obtain any problems.

Why this happens?

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Product Support
Artur.Kosakowski
Posts: 5,050
Registered: ‎12-17-2010

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-12-2012 11:15 PM in reply to: sergey.churilov

'Incorrect reinforcement direction for panel no.xx'

 

Please check what is the direction of the main reinforcement you decided on in the reinforcement parameters assigned to these panels. It seems that you set it as perpendicular to the panels which is incorrect.

 

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

 

 



Artur Kosakowski
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Valued Contributor
sergey.churilov
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎04-12-2012

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-12-2012 11:41 PM in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski

The main reinforcement direction is set to be in global X direction, not perpendicular.

The neighbouring panels with same reinforcement parameters issue different behaviour. One is Ok, the next is with incorrect reinforcement direction.

If I make design of that panels within the global model (not saved as substructure), no problems are found regarind the reinforcement direction.

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Product Support
Artur.Kosakowski
Posts: 5,050
Registered: ‎12-17-2010

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-13-2012 12:00 AM in reply to: sergey.churilov

The main reinforcement direction is set to be in global X direction, not perpendicular.

 

This means that it is perpendicular for all panels (or surface elements) that are defined in the global YZ plane but from your description I understand that this is not the case. Could you determine the number of a panel you have this problem for and then open the original model and save only this panel as a substructure please? Then check if you have the same issue running design of such created file and if yes send it.



Artur Kosakowski
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Valued Contributor
sergey.churilov
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎04-12-2012

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-13-2012 12:12 AM in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski

Yes, Artur the problem exists. I have done that before writing my post here.

I did isolate one floor from a 20 floor building and did save it as substructure. When performing RC panel design, the error "Incorrect reinforcement direction" was identified.

I designed the same floor in the whole model, but no error was found.

The floors were defined in XY direction, and the main reinforcement direction was Cartesian global X direction.

 

In few minutes I will post the substructure of one of the floors that is causing problems.

Right now I am performing RC design of all, ~1500 panels, which takes about 3 hours.

The RC design of isolated panels from the model takes less than 5 minutes.

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Valued Contributor
sergey.churilov
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎04-12-2012

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-13-2012 12:48 AM in reply to: sergey.churilov

Here is a link to the file of the floor saved as substructure.

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34831222/Floor.zip

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Product Support
Artur.Kosakowski
Posts: 5,050
Registered: ‎12-17-2010

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-13-2012 01:13 AM in reply to: sergey.churilov

Sergey,

 

As far as I can see the reinforcement label you assigned to the panels is missing in its definition dialog which definitely will cause problems. I have defined a test  label and assigned it to all panels. There is no direction error during calculations for such created label.

 

BTW do you still use v.20.1 of Robot ?

 

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.



Artur Kosakowski
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Valued Contributor
sergey.churilov
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎04-12-2012

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-13-2012 02:05 AM in reply to: sergey.churilov

Strange. In my case the reinforcement definition label exists.

I will try what you did and report here.

 

Yes, I am still using RM 20.1.5. I have the liscense file for this version, so that this one of the reasons. Also, this version contains macedonian language for output results which was my contribution for RM. I have tried ARSA 2009, 2010, 2011 but they seem not stable, so i returned to the old version that worked fine. Now I have tested ARSA2013 which seems quite fast and stable.

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Valued Contributor
sergey.churilov
Posts: 63
Registered: ‎04-12-2012

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-13-2012 06:07 AM in reply to: sergey.churilov

Definitely strange thing happens.

The floor saved as substructure saves its label name when opened separately. In your case you have the reinforcement name in the dialogue box, but since it was written in cyrillic letters it was shown with odd letters.

Anyway, the only thing that worked for me, was to open the floor in the RC slab desing module and to define there new reinforcement name with the same parameters. After that no errors were produced.

 

I guess somehow the substructure save option looses the information which is already there.

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Product Support
Artur.Kosakowski
Posts: 5,050
Registered: ‎12-17-2010

Re: Substructure saving - Design of panels

04-13-2012 06:38 AM in reply to: sergey.churilov

Sergey,

 

Please check if you have the same situation working with the model created from the beginning in v.2013. Please use latin characters or numbers for names of labels if possible (this would make my life a it easier when you decide to send me the model again) :smileyhappy:

 

 

 



Artur Kosakowski
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