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Floor vs Wall shell element and restrained beams

18 REPLIES 18
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Message 1 of 19
byron86
1117 Views, 18 Replies

Floor vs Wall shell element and restrained beams

Hi I am checking a previous colleagues model and am noticing some things that I would appreciate some assitance with.

 

It is a big model and I will upload it if required but hopefully I can get by without doing so.

 

The model is for the design of a sliding table and crane mat on a barge.  All shell elements are modelled as a floor, steel, 300W.  Is there a difference between a wall and a floor panel?

 

Second question, I have noticed that for the barge itself below deck, it consists of angle beams.  There is no connections in the model but rather there are restraints put at the end of the angle beams.  How adequate is this.

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86

 Is there a difference between a wall and a floor panel?

 

Wall - vertical, floor - horizontal

Panel - every orientation

 

Second question, I have noticed that for the barge itself below deck, it consists of angle beams.  There is no connections in the model but rather there are restraints put at the end of the angle beams.  How adequate is this.

 

Screen shot please.



Rafal Gaweda
Message 3 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

Floor vs Plate.png

 

 

Firstly with regards to above.  So the structure type is panel therefore the orientation is okay, the material type is steel so obviously there is no reinforcement.  Im just confused with as to why it would show reinforcement type?

Message 4 of 19
byron86
in reply to: byron86

Restrained Beam.png

 

For the second question, these angle beams are provided with this type of restraint throughtout.

Message 5 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86


byron86 wrote:

 the material type is steel so obviously there is no reinforcement.  Im just confused with as to why it would show reinforcement type?


Reinforcement Type is an independent properly and you can assigned or not to any panel with any material.But It can be only used for RC design for panels with concrete materials.

You may set "None" (N/A) on such panels.



Rafal Gaweda
Message 6 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86

There is no connections in the model but rather there are restraints put at the end of the angle beams.  How adequate is this.

 

And looking at screen shot I am confused

By restrain you mean phisical connection with wall and or columns or bar type for design (I guess steel) as marked on screen shot?

In case of further conversation please send us model or at least part of model with these pieces.



Rafal Gaweda
Message 7 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

 

As seen above currently there is a bar type with the buckling member length adjusted.  It appears my colleague wouldve done this to model fixity without modelling a phyiscal connection to the wall ?

 

If u still confused ill upload it.

 

Thanks again

Message 8 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86

If mesh nodes are generated along bar (unfortunately nodes are hidden by section shapes on your screen shot so I do not know it they are there or not) it means bar is connected with meshed panel.
Run Model Generation and then turn on display of "Numbers of calculation elements"- if there are blue numbers displayed on bars it means such bars are connected in some nodes with other bars or meshes

If you mean something else please send me model / part of model


Rafal Gaweda
Message 9 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

Ah okay,  I am in the process of uploading the model.  It still is in a messy state and will have to still solve some errors.  

 

Will let you know when its done

Message 10 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

Message 11 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86

I need rtd file, not rt_.


Rafal Gaweda
Message 12 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

apologies, the internet is quite slow. I reduced the size of the file by deleting the loads

Message 13 of 19
byron86
in reply to: byron86
Message 14 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86

Hint : it is much easier to navigate in model having global Z axis as height direction

 

I think everything is correct, beam is connected to wall (see blue numbers) so no buckling and lateral buckling defined in member type definition.

I am not sure if SLS check for such beam is required (activated in member type definition) because beam is connected to wall, but your choice.

 

1609.jpg



Rafal Gaweda
Message 15 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

great thanks. Rafal, so connecting nodes regardless of type panel-bar, volumetric-bar, bar on bar; pif theres a node between them then the two elements are considered fixed unless the degrees of freedom are altered?

Message 16 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86

In case of solids-bars such connection is pinned because solid FEs have only 3 dof.


Rafal Gaweda
Message 17 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

Ah k thanks Rafal, appreciate the advice.   I still have some geometry changes to make and some loading but I might need some help with regards to the meshing.  I managed to get most of the errors away but continuosly get an instability type 2 or 3 error.  

 

Secondly, is it recommened to use Robot up to 2 decimal places ?

Message 18 of 19
Rafal.Gaweda
in reply to: byron86


Ah k thanks Rafal, appreciate the advice.   I still have some geometry changes to make and some loading but I might need some help with regards to the meshing.  I managed to get most of the errors away but continuosly get an instability type 2 or 3 error.  

 

File needed to check.

 

 

Secondly, is it recommened to use Robot up to 2 decimal places ?

 

Programs operates on 15 digits, 2 after comma are displayed as a  default, you may display 9 if you want.



Rafal Gaweda
Message 19 of 19
byron86
in reply to: Rafal.Gaweda

Ah, lots of eureka moments here.  Thanks the hints are very helpful.

 

I have uploaded the file here

 

http://www.4shared.com/zip/d5hA8Dlvce/Barge.html

 

Most of the recommended settings for meshing I have used. Both in the job preferences and in the meshing options.

 

Thanks again

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