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Do Structural Walls and Slabs belong in the Struc model or Arch model? I know BIM ethos would say that they are owned by Structural but what about inserting Wall Hosted elements in the Arch model such as Windows and Doors. And slabs? I would also like to not have to duplicate elements in both models and then have to create filters to remove elements which already exist in the other model from takeoffs, shedules.
In my opinion, if an element is relevant to a particular discipline, they need to model it. "Ownership" to me just means who decides where something gets placed or what it's made of. So the architect may "own" the grid, but I'll put gridlines in the structural model anyway.
It does make for some redundant information, but this way every discipline gets to model what's important for them (e.g. wall finishes for the architect, rebar for me).
-- Kate Morrical Digital Design Manager, Washington DC BIMmuse.com
So do you now then have the same wall duplicated in both models? I understand with Datum elements such as Grids, Levels, etc. but as for actual geometry as well? I guess the same thing does happen in MEP with Lights existing in the Arch and MEP model. But now for making all the holes for the Doors and Windows in Structural Walls in the Struc model, I actually have to model an opening? Seems very tedious and redundant. I was told to make the opening in the Structural model and then, in the Arch model for that hole, draw a small wall to host the door and windows...seems pretty far out there and time consuming!
No duplicating is necessary. The models are different from each other. You will have structural columns, walls, floors in all disciplines. I suggest you take a look at the copy/monitor collaboration tool and others to get a better perspective on what needs to be done. However, If you plan to model everything in a single model, no duplicating is necessary and in that case, the architect and structural engineer collaborate to decide on the location based on the size provided by the structural engineer. It is an iterative process.
Regards,
Ali Al-Hammoud Structural Design Engineer MZ & Partners Engineering Consultancy
No, we want to keep the arch and struc models separate. I understand Copy/Monitor quite well, but it essentially will copy (duplicate) the Struc walls from the Struc model into my Arch model. Is this the workflow Strucs and Archs have adopted as best practice? I will be riddled with a million warnings about the openings caused in the struc wall by windows and doors. I do not want to do duplicate elements if I don't have to and I don't neccessarily even need the Struc Walls in the Struc Model if not absolutely neccessary. I absolutely need them in the Arch model simply for hosting arch elements.
Our office creates a workset solely for elements that will be "double-modeled elements." That way, when we ship our model off to the Architect for coordination, they can turn off that workset and it won't show up in theirs. Yes, it is still technically double-modeled, but there is only one in the Architectural model when they link everything together. Plus, it allows everyone to use their own elements to do what they need to do (host other elements, openings if they want to, etc.).
