Can Revit Structure do quality construction documents???

[Anonymous]

Ok, this is a serious question. I've looked at a lot of the stuff online and
I understand the whole BIM paradigm. I see the power of the BIM. But, I have
yet to see any really well composed structural plans and detail sheets that
can compare to the type of control and quality typically acheived with
AutoCAD. I don't know if this is because the drawings typically posted are
not the cream of the crop, or if it's just that Revit doesn't care about
condocs as much as it does an intelligent BIM. I see plenty of things in
plans and details that scream to me "amatuer drafter"....and I want to hear
that that is simply the case.

Can anyone please post really fine examples of high quality, high control
DWF/PDF files of con docs sheets created entirely within Revit for me to
examine closely?

No flames please, I'm sincere.

Thanks,

Robert

[Anonymous]

hmmmm....no replies? Does that mean I should take that as an answer???


...

Can anyone please post really fine examples of high quality, high control
DWF/PDF files of con docs sheets created entirely within Revit for me to
examine closely?

No flames please, I'm sincere.

Thanks,

Robert

[Anonymous]

You can produce construction documents just as good in Revit as you can
in AutoCAD.

But there are 2 things which I hate, and they both relate to 2D details,
not the model.

1. The speed at which I can draw a 2D detail in Revit is slower than I
can in AutoCAD. I find Revit's 2D tools sluggish and slow to respond. I
like the snappiness that AutoCAD can offer.

2. 'Standard' details are a pain to archive to a detail library to be
reused in other projects. There is no 'block' feature like in AutoCAD.
I think the closest Revit comes, is with Groups. At the moment groups
are slow, and can't be opened directly to make changes. Revit really
needs some kind of Detail family which is used for saving standard details.
I have been putting off converting all our standard details to groups
due to there sloppiness in hope of a real solution in a future release.
Fortunately it's just myself and one other in our office using Revit, so
we just make do for the moment.
I hear documentation has been concentrated on in v9.0, so hopefully a
solution has been achieved.

Robert Grandmaison wrote:
> Ok, this is a serious question. I've looked at a lot of the stuff online and
> I understand the whole BIM paradigm. I see the power of the BIM. But, I have
> yet to see any really well composed structural plans and detail sheets that
> can compare to the type of control and quality typically acheived with
> AutoCAD. I don't know if this is because the drawings typically posted are
> not the cream of the crop, or if it's just that Revit doesn't care about
> condocs as much as it does an intelligent BIM. I see plenty of things in
> plans and details that scream to me "amatuer drafter"....and I want to hear
> that that is simply the case.
>
> Can anyone please post really fine examples of high quality, high control
> DWF/PDF files of con docs sheets created entirely within Revit for me to
> examine closely?
>
> No flames please, I'm sincere.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert

[Anonymous]

be aware that most firms capable of producing "quality" CD's in Revit
Structures have policies about posting DWFs and PDF's of their Drawings and
Details on a public forum. You are gonna have a hard time trying to find
people that can share their work like that.

"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5088916@discussion.autodesk.com...
hmmmm....no replies? Does that mean I should take that as an answer???


...

Can anyone please post really fine examples of high quality, high control
DWF/PDF files of con docs sheets created entirely within Revit for me to
examine closely?

No flames please, I'm sincere.

Thanks,

Robert

[Anonymous]

Scott,

I'm aware of that. However there are ways to help protect such data and the
firm...common ways that have been used in the industry for years too. I'm
not looking for an actual RVT file....but just a PDF or DWF of a few sheets
(sans title block, company info, etc.). I just want to see what a few real
2D detail sheet looks like because, quite honestly, all the details I've
seen done by Revit, well, suck. You know me, I'm an ardent AutoCAD fan...and
I'm hoping I'll love REVIT too. But from what I've seen so far I am very,
very disappointed in the graphical ability of the product- as I can only
base my unofficial review on what I've seen...and so far that's precious
little.

Even looking in the Revit Customer Gallery I've yet to really find any
construction document sheets. And, forgive me for sounding like an
antagonist, but you don't give a BIM to a contractor in a field...you give
him a large piece of paper (or many) with lines, text, arc, circles,
hatches, etc. on them. I love the BIM paradigm, I just need to show my
bosses real proof of it's ability to clearly and controllably convey that
BIM information to a contractor in the field by way of paper evidence.

I would more than welcome any private emails sent with attachments for me to
look at! C'mon Reviteers, convince me please!

Cheers,

Robert

"Scott Davis" wrote in message
news:5089203@discussion.autodesk.com...
be aware that most firms capable of producing "quality" CD's in Revit
Structures have policies about posting DWFs and PDF's of their Drawings and
Details on a public forum. You are gonna have a hard time trying to find
people that can share their work like that.

[Anonymous]

Listen, I can honestly tell you that you can detail in Revit to look like,
or better than, AutoCAD details. It's the same concept for detailing...use
lines, arcs, circles, annotations, dimensions, hatches and "blocks"
(families) of 2D components (anchor bolts, hold-downs, steel shapes, truss
sections, etc) and assemble your details. They can be drawn over the top of
a callout from the 3D model, containing 3D geometry, or they can be drawn as
stand-alone details in "Drafting Views"

If the details you've seen suck, well, thats just because they were drawn
that way (sorry to say....)

I'll see what I can post for you, architectural type details....


"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5089911@discussion.autodesk.com...
Scott,

I'm aware of that. However there are ways to help protect such data and the
firm...common ways that have been used in the industry for years too. I'm
not looking for an actual RVT file....but just a PDF or DWF of a few sheets
(sans title block, company info, etc.). I just want to see what a few real
2D detail sheet looks like because, quite honestly, all the details I've
seen done by Revit, well, suck. You know me, I'm an ardent AutoCAD fan...and
I'm hoping I'll love REVIT too. But from what I've seen so far I am very,
very disappointed in the graphical ability of the product- as I can only
base my unofficial review on what I've seen...and so far that's precious
little.

Even looking in the Revit Customer Gallery I've yet to really find any
construction document sheets. And, forgive me for sounding like an
antagonist, but you don't give a BIM to a contractor in a field...you give
him a large piece of paper (or many) with lines, text, arc, circles,
hatches, etc. on them. I love the BIM paradigm, I just need to show my
bosses real proof of it's ability to clearly and controllably convey that
BIM information to a contractor in the field by way of paper evidence.

I would more than welcome any private emails sent with attachments for me to
look at! C'mon Reviteers, convince me please!

Cheers,

Robert

[Anonymous]

Thank you Scott, I appreciate it! Believe me, I've seen PLENTY of details
and plans drawn with AutoCAD (or ANY application really) that suck too. I
know that it's how a user implements and uses a tool that determines its
effectiveness. I just need to be able to show to my bosses some really fine
drawing examples before they'll consider going down that Revit Road.

Again, thank you and I'll look forward to seeing something soon.

Cheers,

Robert Grandmaison


"Scott Davis" wrote in message
news:5090153@discussion.autodesk.com...
Listen, I can honestly tell you that you can detail in Revit to look like,
or better than, AutoCAD details. It's the same concept for detailing...use
lines, arcs, circles, annotations, dimensions, hatches and "blocks"
(families) of 2D components (anchor bolts, hold-downs, steel shapes, truss
sections, etc) and assemble your details. They can be drawn over the top of
a callout from the 3D model, containing 3D geometry, or they can be drawn as
stand-alone details in "Drafting Views"

If the details you've seen suck, well, thats just because they were drawn
that way (sorry to say....)

I'll see what I can post for you, architectural type details....


"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5089911@discussion.autodesk.com...
Scott,

I'm aware of that. However there are ways to help protect such data and the
firm...common ways that have been used in the industry for years too. I'm
not looking for an actual RVT file....but just a PDF or DWF of a few sheets
(sans title block, company info, etc.). I just want to see what a few real
2D detail sheet looks like because, quite honestly, all the details I've
seen done by Revit, well, suck. You know me, I'm an ardent AutoCAD fan...and
I'm hoping I'll love REVIT too. But from what I've seen so far I am very,
very disappointed in the graphical ability of the product- as I can only
base my unofficial review on what I've seen...and so far that's precious
little.

Even looking in the Revit Customer Gallery I've yet to really find any
construction document sheets. And, forgive me for sounding like an
antagonist, but you don't give a BIM to a contractor in a field...you give
him a large piece of paper (or many) with lines, text, arc, circles,
hatches, etc. on them. I love the BIM paradigm, I just need to show my
bosses real proof of it's ability to clearly and controllably convey that
BIM information to a contractor in the field by way of paper evidence.

I would more than welcome any private emails sent with attachments for me to
look at! C'mon Reviteers, convince me please!

Cheers,

Robert

[Anonymous]

attached find two DWFs of some window/door details, and some wall
construction details. I tried to find something that showed something
structural for you. These are a snapshot in time from a project thats
currently in CD's, so there are a few things to be cleaned up, but you'll
get the idea. These are 100% Revit details. Let me know if you have
questions.

"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5090223@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank you Scott, I appreciate it! Believe me, I've seen PLENTY of details
and plans drawn with AutoCAD (or ANY application really) that suck too. I
know that it's how a user implements and uses a tool that determines its
effectiveness. I just need to be able to show to my bosses some really fine
drawing examples before they'll consider going down that Revit Road.

Again, thank you and I'll look forward to seeing something soon.

Cheers,

Robert Grandmaison


"Scott Davis" wrote in message
news:5090153@discussion.autodesk.com...
Listen, I can honestly tell you that you can detail in Revit to look like,
or better than, AutoCAD details. It's the same concept for detailing...use
lines, arcs, circles, annotations, dimensions, hatches and "blocks"
(families) of 2D components (anchor bolts, hold-downs, steel shapes, truss
sections, etc) and assemble your details. They can be drawn over the top of
a callout from the 3D model, containing 3D geometry, or they can be drawn as
stand-alone details in "Drafting Views"

If the details you've seen suck, well, thats just because they were drawn
that way (sorry to say....)

I'll see what I can post for you, architectural type details....


"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5089911@discussion.autodesk.com...
Scott,

I'm aware of that. However there are ways to help protect such data and the
firm...common ways that have been used in the industry for years too. I'm
not looking for an actual RVT file....but just a PDF or DWF of a few sheets
(sans title block, company info, etc.). I just want to see what a few real
2D detail sheet looks like because, quite honestly, all the details I've
seen done by Revit, well, suck. You know me, I'm an ardent AutoCAD fan...and
I'm hoping I'll love REVIT too. But from what I've seen so far I am very,
very disappointed in the graphical ability of the product- as I can only
base my unofficial review on what I've seen...and so far that's precious
little.

Even looking in the Revit Customer Gallery I've yet to really find any
construction document sheets. And, forgive me for sounding like an
antagonist, but you don't give a BIM to a contractor in a field...you give
him a large piece of paper (or many) with lines, text, arc, circles,
hatches, etc. on them. I love the BIM paradigm, I just need to show my
bosses real proof of it's ability to clearly and controllably convey that
BIM information to a contractor in the field by way of paper evidence.

I would more than welcome any private emails sent with attachments for me to
look at! C'mon Reviteers, convince me please!

Cheers,

Robert

[Anonymous]

Here is another example - posted previously by others to AUGI.
David Haynes
Ideate, Inc.


"Scott Davis" wrote in message
news:5090297@discussion.autodesk.com...
attached find two DWFs of some window/door details, and some wall
construction details. I tried to find something that showed something
structural for you. These are a snapshot in time from a project thats
currently in CD's, so there are a few things to be cleaned up, but you'll
get the idea. These are 100% Revit details. Let me know if you have
questions.

"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5090223@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank you S
cott, I appreciate it! Believe me, I've seen PLENTY of details
and plans drawn with AutoCAD (or ANY application really) that suck too. I
know that it's how a user implements and uses a tool that determines its
effectiveness. I just need to be able to show to my bosses some really fine
drawing examples before they'll consider going down that Revit Road.

Again, thank you and I'll look forward to seeing something soon.

Cheers,

Robert Grandmaison


"Scott Davis" cts.com> wrote in message
news:5090153@discussion.autodesk.com...
Listen, I can honestly tell you that you can detail in Revit to look like,
or better than, AutoCAD details. It's the same concept for detailing...use
lines, arcs, circles, annotations, dimensions, hatches and "blocks"
(families) of 2D components (anchor bolts, hold-downs, steel shapes, truss
sections, etc) and assemble your details. They can be drawn over the top of
a callout from the 3D model, containing 3D geometry, or they ca
n be drawn as
stand-alone details in "Drafting Views"

If the details you've seen suck, well, thats just because they were drawn
that way (sorry to say....)

I'll see what I can post for you, architectural type details....


"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5089911@discussion.autodesk.com...
Scott,

I'm aware of that. However there are ways to help protect such data and the
firm...common ways that have been used in the industry for years too. I'm
not
looking for an actual RVT file....but just a PDF or DWF of a few sheets
(sans title block, company info, etc.). I just want to see what a few real
2D detail sheet looks like because, quite honestly, all the details I've
seen done by Revit, well, suck. You know me, I'm an ardent AutoCAD fan...and
I'm hoping I'll love REVIT too. But from what I've seen so far I am very,
very disappointed in the graphical ability of the product- as I can only
base my unofficial review on what I've seen...and so far
that's precious
little.

Even looking in the Revit Customer Gallery I've yet to really find any
construction document sheets. And, forgive me for sounding like an
antagonist, but you don't give a BIM to a contractor in a field...you give
him a large piece of paper (or many) with lines, text, arc, circles,
hatches, etc. on them. I love the BIM paradigm, I just need to show my
bosses real proof of it's ability to clearly and controllably convey that
BIM information to a contractor in the field by w
ay of paper evidence.

I would more than welcome any private emails sent with attachments for me to
look at! C'mon Reviteers, convince me please!

Cheers,

Robert

[Anonymous]

Good question Robert. I too wonder about construction documents and the
ability to automatically have them look good. We use a combination of base
line dimensions and usual dimensions like in the attached sample. The
reasons for the combination of dimension types is to build as exact as
possible and to make it easy for those building it to but out the measures
etc. I want to be able to set up rules for the placement of the dimensions
and also how the items should be tagged with position numbers. Some items
that there are a lot if should only show like 24x 1B111. I also need some to
be dimensioned from the center of the module and some from the side.


If this is possible in RS I will really take a second look at it.

I have no doubt that it's possible and easy to model the structure but it's
the automatic drawing production that would save time and money. To create
detailed details as those posted so far doesn't matter much unless they
could be automatically created from the model. But if it was possible to
identify connection points in the model or sections and then have them
linked to details either created in AutoCAD or in Revit would be good
enough.

--
Best Regards, Jimmy Bergmark
CAD and Database Developer Manager at www.pharmadule-emtunga.com
Blog: http://jtbworld.blogspot.com
JTB FlexReport (FLEXnet / FLEXlm report tool) -
http://www.jtbworld.com/jtbflexreport
SmartPurger (Purges automatically) - http://www.jtbworld.com/smartpurger.htm
or download some freeware at http://www.jtbworld.com
More on AutoCAD 2005 and 2006
http://www.jtbworld.com/autocad2005.htm
http://www.jtbworld.com/autocad2006.htm


"Robert Grandmaison" wrote in message
news:5087672@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ok, this is a serious question. I've looked at a lot of the stuff online and
I understand the whole BIM paradigm. I see the power of the BIM. But, I have
yet to see any really well composed structural plans and detail sheets that
can compare to the type of control and quality typically acheived with
AutoCAD. I don't know if this is because the drawings typically posted are
not the cream of the crop, or if it's just that Revit doesn't care about
condocs as much as it does an intelligent BIM. I see plenty of things in
plans and details that scream to me "amatuer drafter"....and I want to hear
that that is simply the case.

Can anyone please post really fine examples of high quality, high control
DWF/PDF files of con docs sheets created entirely within Revit for me to
examine closely?

No flames please, I'm sincere.

Thanks,

Robert

[Anonymous]

I agree with your statement about the speed of 2D detailing.



"Chad" wrote in message
news:5089045@discussion.autodesk.com...
You can produce construction documents just as good in Revit as you can
in AutoCAD.

But there are 2 things which I hate, and they both relate to 2D details,
not the model.

1. The speed at which I can draw a 2D detail in Revit is slower than I
can in AutoCAD. I find Revit's 2D tools sluggish and slow to respond. I
like the snappiness that AutoCAD can offer.

2. 'Standard' details are a pain to archive to a detail library to be
reused in other projects. There is no 'block' feature like in AutoCAD.
I think the closest Revit comes, is with Groups. At the moment groups
are slow, and can't be opened directly to make changes. Revit really
needs some kind of Detail family which is used for saving standard details.
I have been putting off converting all our standard details to groups
due to there sloppiness in hope of a real solution in a future release.
Fortunately it's just myself and one other in our office using Revit, so
we just make do for the moment.
I hear documentation has been concentrated on in v9.0, so hopefully a
solution has been achieved.

Robert Grandmaison wrote:
> Ok, this is a serious question. I've looked at a lot of the stuff online
> and
> I understand the whole BIM paradigm. I see the power of the BIM. But, I
> have
> yet to see any really well composed structural plans and detail sheets
> that
> can compare to the type of control and quality typically acheived with
> AutoCAD. I don't know if this is because the drawings typically posted are
> not the cream of the crop, or if it's just that Revit doesn't care about
> condocs as much as it does an intelligent BIM. I see plenty of things in
> plans and details that scream to me "amatuer drafter"....and I want to
> hear
> that that is simply the case.
>
> Can anyone please post really fine examples of high quality, high control
> DWF/PDF files of con docs sheets created entirely within Revit for me to
> examine closely?
>
> No flames please, I'm sincere.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert