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Distinguished Contributor
bjur
Posts: 148
Registered: ‎09-14-2011
Message 1 of 13 (1,733 Views)
Accepted Solution

Brace alignment problem

1733 Views, 12 Replies
02-04-2013 12:56 PM

This situation comes up on many of our projects.  We have a braced frame located on the exterior of a building.  The beam at the floor is offset from the center of the grid so that the beam flange doesn't extend past the exterior of the building.  The columns that are part of the frame must be hidden in the wall below and do not line up with the center of the beam.  The braces that get drawn only attach to the centerlines of the beam and column, thus they stick out of the wall.  This is driving us nuts.  There has to be a way to model this correctly.  I can use the analytical tools to get the analytical model to work perfect.

 

I have a model that is 1.8 mb but can't attach it here.

What I ended up doing was the following:
1. Stopped using braces. They don't work right.
2. Created different brace to beam/column connections that include the brace symbol when viewed in coarse from above.
3. Only use framing members for braces. Set them to other instead if girder...etc.
Valued Mentor
AJA14
Posts: 491
Registered: ‎11-01-2011
Message 2 of 13 (1,709 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-04-2013 10:00 PM in reply to: bjur

Hi. You could try drawing it as a beam using 3D snapping and then use lateral justification or manually align the beam to a reference plane to get the alignment you need.

Ali Al-Hammoud
Structural Design Engineer
MZ & Partners Engineering Consultancy
Distinguished Contributor
bjur
Posts: 148
Registered: ‎09-14-2011
Message 3 of 13 (1,695 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-05-2013 02:13 PM in reply to: AJA14

If I don't use a revit "Brace", then the bracing symbol doesn't show.  Either I have to model it incorrect and get the brace symbol, or model it correct and manually draw in a brace symbol, which won't update if the model ever changes...which it will.  I guess I'm forced to model correcctly and manually "draft" in the symbol.  Dear factory, please fix braces so we can actually use them in real world situations.

Valued Mentor
AJA14
Posts: 491
Registered: ‎11-01-2011
Message 4 of 13 (1,690 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-05-2013 09:43 PM in reply to: bjur

Hi. You're definitely right about that but here's an idea. Create a new family that looks like the brace symbol but starting from the connection family. Then go to the structural settings, and add a new connection symbol called brace which can then be applied to any beam or column. You would need in this case to be careful to the orientation of your brace symbol to be able to show if the bracing is above or below. Hope this helps.

Ali Al-Hammoud
Structural Design Engineer
MZ & Partners Engineering Consultancy
Distinguished Contributor
bjur
Posts: 148
Registered: ‎09-14-2011
Message 5 of 13 (1,675 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-06-2013 09:05 PM in reply to: AJA14
What I ended up doing was the following:
1. Stopped using braces. They don't work right.
2. Created different brace to beam/column connections that include the brace symbol when viewed in coarse from above.
3. Only use framing members for braces. Set them to other instead if girder...etc.
Valued Contributor
gguevarra
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎08-15-2008
Message 6 of 13 (1,645 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-07-2013 01:18 PM in reply to: bjur

Could you draw a reference plane that is equal to your column centerline, set that plane to be your work plane, draw your brace (I did it in a 3-D view) from bottom of column to approximately the mid-span of the beam, then cut an elevation / section to adjust the vertical and horizontal work points (end points) of the bracing? It'll be in the plane of the column centerline because you set that as the work plane, and it'll go to the beam mid-span and mid-depth with your adjustments in the elevation view. Does this work better for you? The end-grips for the bracing can be a little of a bear to work with / control, but at least it'll be aligned with your column centerline, and it'll be extending to the centerline of the beam to the naked eye.

Distinguished Contributor
bjur
Posts: 148
Registered: ‎09-14-2011
Message 7 of 13 (1,620 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-07-2013 01:33 PM in reply to: gguevarra

It doesn't work because the Revit Brace object will snap the the centerline of the nearest framing element.  Can't figure out how to turn this "Feature" off.  It's super anoying.  Trying to align the brace with a referance plane will only produce an error message and then put the brace back in the wrong place.  

Valued Contributor
gguevarra
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎08-15-2008
Message 8 of 13 (1,603 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-07-2013 02:05 PM in reply to: bjur

for the brace at the base of the column, that works just fine because you want it to come from the column centerline. up at the beam, that's where the reference plane comes in handy... the reference plane will keep the brace on column centerline, but you would have to place the end of the brace as close to the beam midspan as possible. that's where the elevation view comes into play in that you can use that view to do the finishing touches to adjust the height and horizontal location of the end of the brace. in lieu of aligning the brace to the reference plane, i set the reference plane as the work plane before i place the brace.

 

in the ribbon menu, turn off 3-D snapping and it won't snap to those end points and intersections, BUT, when you click a point in space, it may get a little squirrelly as to where in 3-D space your point actually ends up being.

Active Member
brencass22
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-12-2011
Message 9 of 13 (1,603 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-07-2013 02:10 PM in reply to: bjur

You could of done something along the following:-

 

1 - Creating a new family you should of just added a parameter to structural framing.

 

Add a new parameter -> Create the filters as you require - > put the text in new parameter for the beam in question - > then the beam will show up as per overrides in filter.

 

Look at the attached image should probably help direct you a bit better and would get you away from creating new families just because the line doesnt show correctly.

 

2 - Other option is to add another line that is offset from origanal line and is only visible from above and when a tick box is clicked for that member.

Valued Contributor
gguevarra
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎08-15-2008
Message 10 of 13 (1,594 Views)

Re: Brace alignment problem

02-07-2013 02:19 PM in reply to: brencass22

i see how that works well for plan visibility of the bracing, but i thought the meat of this discussion string was trying to get bracing to work when the beam was offset from the column. as noted, with the 3-D snapping on, the bracing would want to autosnap to the column ends, but to the offset beam as well. doing this would put the bracing at a skew and not keep it hidden within the wall cavity. that was my understanding of the issue at hand...

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