What am I doing wrong here?

[Anonymous]

"No auto-route solution was found"
"Element is reversed"

I get these errors alot. ALOT. I would understand it if I got them when trying squeeze ducts & fittings into an impossible space but I get these messages in certain (and frequent) situations where it just doesn't make sense!

For instance, I drag a duct to extend it 2 inches and it goes berserk on me. I try to connect two ducts on the same level, perfect sizes for mating and when I try to connect them together, auto-routing finds an error on one of the ducts' connection tees 30 feet away. Am I missing something big here? Was there a setting that I just forgot to activate? or is this a common problem that all of you have faced (or facing)?

[Anonymous]

You're not alone. I get similar situations and end up just redrawing it if I can't make it work. Sometimes the families get
corrupted and you have to reload, sometimes re-booting helps. It all takes time though. Are you using groups? I have found that they
cause a lot of odd behavior.

I have sent in a lot of support requests but they usually can't reproduce the problem to find what's causing it. I believe that
Autodesk is trying to get things resolved, but if they can't reproduce the problem then where do we go from there?

John

wrote in message news:5844830@discussion.autodesk.com...
"No auto-route solution was found"
"Element is reversed"

I get these errors alot. ALOT. I would understand it if I got them when trying squeeze ducts & fittings into an impossible space
but I get these messages in certain (and frequent) situations where it just doesn't make sense!

For instance, I drag a duct to extend it 2 inches and it goes berserk on me. I try to connect two ducts on the same level, perfect
sizes for mating and when I try to connect them together, auto-routing finds an error on one of the ducts' connection tees 30 feet
away. Am I missing something big here? Was there a setting that I just forgot to activate? or is this a common problem that all of
you have faced (or facing)?

[Anonymous]

I get the error with no auto-route, but the program still connects the
route properly and everything is ok. One thing I ran into, was some
people would create a metric template based on the imperial and still
use the imperial families, without actually purging them out and placing
the proper metric families into the metric template.



John Henry wrote:
> You're not alone. I get similar situations and end up just redrawing it if I can't make it work. Sometimes the families get
> corrupted and you have to reload, sometimes re-booting helps. It all takes time though. Are you using groups? I have found that they
> cause a lot of odd behavior.
>
> I have sent in a lot of support requests but they usually can't reproduce the problem to find what's causing it. I believe that
> Autodesk is trying to get things resolved, but if they can't reproduce the problem then where do we go from there?
>
> John
>
> wrote in message news:5844830@discussion.autodesk.com...
> "No auto-route solution was found"
> "Element is reversed"
>
> I get these errors alot. ALOT. I would understand it if I got them when trying squeeze ducts & fittings into an impossible space
> but I get these messages in certain (and frequent) situations where it just doesn't make sense!
>
> For instance, I drag a duct to extend it 2 inches and it goes berserk on me. I try to connect two ducts on the same level, perfect
> sizes for mating and when I try to connect them together, auto-routing finds an error on one of the ducts' connection tees 30 feet
> away. Am I missing something big here? Was there a setting that I just forgot to activate? or is this a common problem that all of
> you have faced (or facing)?


--
Regards,
Bill Wright
http://ductductpipe.blogspot.com

[vewright]

Same here. When I try to extend a duct to another duct, or a fitting, aligned on the SAME centerline and offset, the error message pops up with no option except to cancel. Some of the time, I can extend the other duct, and it works. Some of the time it just won't work.

The same thing happens when I use the Duct command off the design bar. I have also had occasions where auto-route would work, but instead of inserting a short piece of duct, it inserts several pieces and several fittings--about 20' of duct when 1' was required.

Personally, I would like to be able to turn auto-route off most of the time--but auto-route doesn't even appear in the help file. Clearing the auto connect check box doesn't turn it off.

What I would also like to see is a command to force a connection. Sometimes the tab key will not bring up a duct connector for selection, and the two ducts may or may not be connected, even though they meet end-to-end.

[KyleB_Autodesk]

Same here. When I try to extend a duct to another duct, or a fitting, aligned on the SAME centerline and offset, the error message pops up with no option except to cancel.
*******************************************

That seems like a pretty glaring issue if it is indeed an issue with the product. Have you reported it to our Subscription Support team or your reseller? It is impossible to try and help you with this generic description of the issue, so the existing support resources are your best path to a resolution.

Cheers,
Kyle B
Revit MEP Product Manager
http://inside-the-system.typepad.com

[vewright]

Many of the problems I experience with Revit Arch and Revit MEP leave no evidence. In my experience, support teams want to see files. If Revit fails to complete a command, there is very likely no evidence left in the file.

For example, in the past two days, Revit has crashed twice. Once, it simply evaporated while I was drawing a duct run. On two other occasions, I was trying to inert a bmp file. After two crashes, I decided that Revit did not like it, so I backed up and made a jpg file, which Revit accepted.

At any rate, if I stopped work to put together a problem report along with supporting files every time Revit hiccupped, I would not have time for anything else.

I post problems in the discussion group because that is the first place I look for possible solutions. Hopefully, when a problem is posted, and it generates other posts, the support team will get the idea that there really is a problem, generic or not.

About connecting duct runs--I have learned that if there is a problem, it is often because something is not aligned perfectly. If two ducts are misaligned by as little as 1/256", auto-route cannot deal with it. So, when Revit won't connect two duct runs, or a duct run and a fitting, I check the offset to make sure that both entities are aligned vertically. Suppose they are off by only 0.001"--will that make Revit choke? I don't know. Will Revit display the same offset for those two entities. I don't know that either.

Is Revit always right, while I am often wrong, or misinformed? That's entirely possible. But, as I read the various posts in these discussion groups, I can't help but think that Revit needs some serious attention.

I continue to use Revit Arch and Revit MEP in spite of the problems I perceive, because I believe in the concepts behind the product. But, it's frustrating to know that this product has features that I can't explore because I have to spend so much time trouble-shooting and looking for work-arounds while I try to perform basic tasks.

Consider sizing ductwork, for example. This is not rocket science--it can't be, because I can do it manually. Duct sizing software has been on the market for decades. There are only a few equations involved, and it ony takes a few recursive functions to trace a duct system to get the CFM at each node. So why does Revit MEP select the same size for the inlet ot a bullhead tee as it does for the two outlets? Why does Revit report that a system is not well-connected when it made the connections?

Does the Revit MEP team have a copy of the SMACNA Duct Construction Standards? ASHRAE literature is good, especially for theoretical considerations, but contractors use the SMACNA standards, and so to the vendors of software for duct layout and export to cutting tables.

To be continued......

[KyleB_Autodesk]

The problem that often occurs is that functionality works fine in our tests. We go to great lengths to test many different scenarios, but It's only "out in the wild" that certain situations occur. We wouldn't ship the product if there were huge issues with the designed workflows.

When users find such issues, we need to be able to reproduce the behavior on our machines. Usually an example file is the best, most productive way to convey the issue you've encountered. You could also provide steps to re-create the behavior you've experienced. Once we can reproduce the behavior with our Quality Assurance team, we'll have a developer step through the code to debug the issue.

If you don't choose to take the time to work with us for a solution, that is fine. However, you will need to know that you are not using the best channels to communicate technical issues back the product teams. We certainly read the forums, but this is not the right media for most technical support communications.

Now for your other points:

**************************
So why does Revit MEP select the same size for the inlet ot a bullhead tee as it does for the two outlets?
**************************

In short. It doesn't. I think you might be using a Duct Type that doesn't use Bullhead Tees, and that's the conversion settings that are used during sizing. Check out the attached video.

Cheers,
Kyle B
Revit MEP Product Manager
http://inside-the-system.typepad.com

[KyleB_Autodesk]

****************************
Why does Revit report that a system is not well-connected when it made the connections?
****************************

It doesn't do this for the fun of it, that's for sure. We've designed a system to calculate flows when there a solution to be found. Often the conditions in the system do no provide a definitive flow solution. This can be caused by:

* Actual disconnections in the system - The best way to find these is to use Duct Flow Velocity Color Fill in your Modeling views. I spoke about this earlier in this thread and provided links to my blog to see this in action and download for yourself.

* There are elements in your System that are not connected to the network - You may have 4 diffusers on the system, and only 3 diffusers "well connected" to the System Equipment. The application wants to find the critical path in the System, and it know that the critical path could be to the 4th diffuser. Also, the System Equipment is ot detecting the entire flow of the "children" of the system. Hence the error...

I blogged about System previously, find it at http://inside-the-system.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/10/putting-the-pie.html

* Flow Incompatibility - You might have incompatible flow directions in the System. If there are Connectors with the flow set to "in" and 2 with the flow set to "Out", there are is not a definitive solution. You need to make sure that there's a logical solution given the flow directions in the system.

I blogged about flow in depth in my "Go with the flow" series on my blog, including some in-depth videos. Find them at:

http://inside-the-system.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/11/go-with-the-flo.html
http://inside-the-system.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/12/go-with-the-flo.html

Cheers,
Kyle B
Revit MEP Product Manager
http://inside-the-system.typepad.com/my_weblog/

[Anonymous]

Kyle,

I have worked with and like AutoCAD very much for many years.  But, Revit has so many issues that it seems like Autodesk should be paying power users, or at least some users in industry to work out all the bugs.  I'm sure there are several of us that would like to help you fix the many issues.

I am frustrated.  I paid $7K for this software and $700 a year for support.  Yet, I don't see the support.  In fact, I'm currently paying a 3rd party for support in addition to Autodesk because I can't get it out of Autodesk in a timely fashion, if at all.

I have used the automatic reporting functions  in Revit MEP 2010 when the software has crashed, filled out the necessary information, and have yet to hear from Autodesk on any one of these occasions.  (At least 10x.)

I want to turn off auto-route!  I've wanted to turn it off at least 1000x.  Is it so hard to get your developers to develop this functionality?  I'm simply trying to run 3" sewer pipe in a way that I know will work.  But, I can't get the s/w to stop giving me auto-route errors, either in plan or section views!  The only solution I' can figure out is to re-draw.  Well, I'm TIRED of redrawing because the s/w fails to work!

Also, it would not be rocket science for the developers to design Revit to track the commands a person is using, and the settings that are current in the Revit file and then review the relevant portion of the file.  After all, this is supposed to BIM, i.e. it is supposed to know what is connected to what.  The DB of the pipes I am trying to connect is likely <100 KB.  It would not be hard to send this file to Autodesk so they could fix this issue.

I am working with a short turn of pipe, that is connected with only a few fittings.  If it is all connected, it would seem logical that Revit could develop a database of all the pipe connected to the one I am trying to route, and put it in a log file for your development team to review.

Frustration does not begin to describe my issues with this software.  What can we, as users, do to help you along?  Do you ever pay outside programmers to help you with issues?  I know at least 1 programmer that could help you out big time.  But, he doesn't work for big corporations.  I

[JoelBradley]

It's unbelievable that this is still an issue in Revit 2011 Update 1, three or more years after this thread was started...and now it has been propagated to the new conduit functionatlity!

[Anonymous]

I think Revit MEP is fantastic.

I threaten to resign (and mean it!) if people suggest we go back to AutoCAD.

I get puzzled when people make complaints like this because its the kind of problem I rarely have. & when I do it was usually a modelling error on my part.

Mabey this will help a bit:

I always;

Have project north set so the building is square to the screen.

Draw with plan and section views open and visible on screen.

Use align and trim a lot (in preference to auto connect)

Draw construction lines and align to those

Put the main in first and work out to the branches.

Use well set up pipe/duct types with the correct default fittings

In AutoCAD I'm a keyboard tapper so I carry this over to Revit by typing elevations, lengths etc to ensure I get round numbers and no errors caused by something being fraction of a mm out.

Also I spent 2 hrs today trying to recover someone elses corrupt AutoCAD file.

IMHO every release of AutoCAD is worse than the one before, with more and more resuorce hungry window dressing, but little attempt to correct problems that advanced users have been complaining about for many years.

Revit MEP is still young and actually improves significantly with each release.

Lastly, modelling everything in 3D is so much fun!

But wait there's more.....

If you want to show that kind of error to Autodesk. Just put the view on a sheet & add some 2d lines and text explaining what you are trying to connect.

Then they can just activate the view and drag one pipe/duct onto the other to reproduce your error.

[JoelBradley]

Wow, there are a lot of things that can cause Revit to become useless with this stuff.  After most of a day trying to figure out one such thing I finally tracked it down, so now I want to share it with all the other poor souls out there trying desperately to make this stuff usable. 

In my case I was trying to run conduit between pull boxes in a curved corridor.  As I progressed down the hall I was aligning my pull boxes with the nearest walls, and Revit was routing the conduit between some pull boxes but not others, with no apparent difference; it wouldn't even let me run conduit from both pull boxes and try to connect them in the middle! 

Finally what it turned out to be is that Revit could connect the conduit between pullboxes whose faces were perfectly aligned, as well as between pullboxes whose faces were misaligned by one or more degrees.  However, it was stymied in every way if the angle between the faces was between zero and one degree---if the next pull box was offset from the originating box by 0.7 degrees, Revit reported useless errors no matter what I tried; however, if I rotated the destination face 0.3 more degrees so it was one degree off, no problemo, problem solved.   Sheesh!

In retrospect, what would really help---assuming that rewriting the 'connection engine' to be more sophisticated is not immediately feasible---would be more informative error messages.  Even just suggesting that the problem is in the x, y, and/or z axis, or is due to an inability to deal with angles less than one degree would have avoided much spittle and foul language (not to mention lost time and money).

[Anonymous]

   lmontz said "Also, it would not be rocket science for the developers to design Revit to track the commands a person is using, and the settings that are current in the Revit file and then review the relevant portion of the file."

The do, it's called a log file.

Lawrence

[JoelBradley]

Thanks for your contribution, embolisim---I didn't see it prior to my last post.

I have never used CAD extensively, so I can't equitably compare them; I was brought in to learn Revit and train our CAD staff.  However, I can say that---despite frustrations with auto-routing and other niggly items that come up and waste time---I think Revit's a blast and I love modeling in the 3D space.  If I were told that I had to move from Revit to CAD, I would resign as well!

Joel

[Anonymous]

The number one source of my frustrations with Revit:   "No auto-route solution was found."

I don't want to auto-route.  Revit rarely lays out an acceptable route anyhow.

I just want to draw a piece of pipe from point "A" to point "B".

I frequently get this error while manually routing pipe....and usually the only solution is to back track and redraw a lot of objects.

Revit doesn't tell me why it can't auto-route....and honestly I don't care.  I just want to disable auto-route and get on with my work.

[Anonymous]

Unbelievably this still seems to be a major issue. back in the days before conduit I did a project and came up with this a lot when altering a run (drawn with plumbing pipe), the only solution I found was ro redraw most of it. The company decided revit was too time consuming for no return so we hadn't done another until now. Now we have real conduit, but guess what.... the same problem. It's fine just drawing a run but electrical gets changed frequently because we have to fit in around the "big stuff". Making changes is a major pain in the neck. Is it now possible to disable auto route? We should be able to at least complete the intended change before Revit decides it isn't viable. A lot of the problem I am thinking is the elevations, Our guys want the measurements to the bottom of the pipe, but the default is center. I know you can adjust this (obviously) but then when you start auto routing fittings it seems to assume center. If it would just let me draw it in first then I can check and change everything to line up.

two things we need

1) to disable auto route

2) to change the defaults by project.

[Anonymous]

Revit actually records every action and computation it makes in a text file. Here is a guide on finding Revit's journals. Open the most recent one and it will have what you want to find somewhere in there. I find it effective to open the text file and use Ctrl+F to find the error that was giving me grief.

I cannot figure out why Revit doesn't bother to put this information in the actual error message itself.

[sandy_soon2000]

ive had the same problem and have used the autorouter in  mep for 2 years+ if the connection is from a main branch  to smaller branch it connects if you connect  from small to main it gives the warning , if  i copy a line of pipe and connections the connections only see one way  to connect a system. thats my

theory and need patience all my errors i adjusted .llol.

[tbrown6608]

One of the issues I have with Revit that I can never find an answer for, sometimes (and it seems completely random) branch ducts refuse to connect to the main. The ducts are at the exact same elevation. I use extend, I don't get any error messages or anything, the branch duct just extends to the center of the main duct. I've tried dragging the branch to the main and get the "no auto-route solution". The only thing that works is redrawing the ducts. It is too time consuming to always redo my work.

Another similiar issue with ducts is modifing them in section. I'll draw a section at 90 degrees (I've learned to pay close attention to the angle of everything I put in Revit as Revit loves to draw at a 90.003 degree angle.) it's exactly matched to the duct. Then in section I copy and rotate some duct so I can dropping or rising above another element and then I go to trim everything together I get "no auto-route solution". I have to go back into plan view and re-align everything by the center point, then go back into the section to trim them. Sometimes I have to do this ste multiple times. What causes this? The section is at the same angle so the copied ducts should be at the same angle, right? 

I do like Revit (love is such a strong word). I've been using it since 2010 and now am on 2015, but as each version comes out, I find myself spending more and more time trying to get things to work. Partially due to our clients wanting and expecting more out of the BIM models, but definately also due to the good ole auto-route solutions.

[nicholas.caraballo]

Verified this is unfortunately still an issue.

"The ends are misaligned." - No, they're not.

"The fabrication service does not have a part to fit the connection." - Yes, it does. In fact it's a common part that Revit uses to route and fill.

Are we going to move forward on this problem after 12 years? What is the status?