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Symbol scaling

16 REPLIES 16
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Message 1 of 17
CVMN0501
29422 Views, 16 Replies

Symbol scaling

Hi,

 

I would like to achieve a drawing presentation with an overview at scale of 1:500 then zones separated with matchlines at scale 1:100. As you can see at the attached image below, size of riser/drop symbol are fine for scale of 1:100 and is too large for scale of 1:500. How do i produce such presentation that has fixed symbol size at different scales? also, i would like to apply the same for generic annotations as symbols for sprinklers, valves, etc. (i tried using detail component as symbols but i got problems regarding the use of masking region to hide objects below the symbol, but still it shows like it is on hidden line, please advice.)

 

Capture1.PNG

16 REPLIES 16
Message 2 of 17
bvanallen
in reply to: CVMN0501

I've been wondering the same thing. Does anyone out there know how to change the scale of an annotation family after its been brought into a model?

Message 3 of 17
LisaDrago
in reply to: bvanallen

You would need to edit the family and change the text information there and import it back into the model.

That is the only way to make that change.

 

When you think of annotation in Revit - you have to think of the end result - what do you want the text height to be when printed? That is the size of text you want to create. Revit takes care of the rest depending upon the scale of the view.

 

 

LD


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You can't think AutoCAD and run Revit.
Email: LisaDragoEE@gmail.com
Message 4 of 17
bvanallen
in reply to: LisaDrago

Sorry to hyjack this old thread. My case is along the same linesof scaling annotative objects in a scaled model drawing, but slightly different. I've been trying to set up an emergency fixture half shade using a fill. I don't get why this wouldn't be available in model? When I create the shade in annotative then bring it in to various model scales it won't work since the fixture lenght is always the same regardless of the drawing scale.

 

I'm also trying to make it adaptive so I can use the same basic shade for 2, 3 or 4ft fixtures (by changing a shared parameter dimension). From what I've found this doesn't even seem possible with fills. As a work around I've been able to create a bunch of tight model lines in my model instead. Unfortunately when I change the length/width I start getting the "slightly off axis' warning, which in this case I would want some of the lines slightly off to fill in the gap & yet wouldn't want the annoying warning (unless of course I could use a fill which would be preferrable).

Message 5 of 17
CVMN0501
in reply to: LisaDrago

I don't mind the text, i'm satisfied on how revit runs the scaling of the text. what i want to achieve is a non-scaling symbol for single line rise/drop, also a work-around for detail component as a non-scaling symbol for valves, sprinklers, etc. because i've encountered a problem regarding its presentation of hiding the objects beneath the symbol, though i have used masking region on the detail component as symbol, it still shows objects underneath as if it is on hidden line. the reason for using a coarse or medium detail level, is that not all systems are neatly presented in a fine detail like domestic water piping.

Message 6 of 17
CoreyDaun
in reply to: bvanallen


bvanallen wrote:

"...I've been trying to set up an emergency fixture half shade using a fill. I don't get why this wouldn't be available in model? When I create the shade in annotative then bring it in to various model scales it won't work since the fixture lenght is always the same regardless of the drawing scale."


If you want to have a non-annotative shaded region in a Family, then create a Detail Component family. You can make it parametric and control the size with Dimensional Constraints and Reference Lines. Then, once loaded into the model Family, you can edit the nested Family's Properties (Type or Instance, depending on what you made it) and Link those Parameters to relevant Values in the host family. (They do not have to be Shared Parameters to do this.) I have attached an example family (Revit 2012).

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Message 7 of 17
CoreyDaun
in reply to: CVMN0501


CVMN0501 wrote:

"I don't mind the text, i'm satisfied on how revit runs the scaling of the text. what i want to achieve is a non-scaling symbol for single line rise/drop, also a work-around for detail component as a non-scaling symbol for valves, sprinklers, etc. because i've encountered a problem regarding its presentation of hiding the objects beneath the symbol, though i have used masking region on the detail component as symbol, it still shows objects underneath as if it is on hidden line. the reason for using a coarse or medium detail level, is that not all systems are neatly presented in a fine detail like domestic water piping."


I've fiddled around with it a little bit (didn't have a lot of time to do so!) but I think you would have to create/modify the fittings to accommodate the desired scale, which would seem like an arduous task. You can turn off the Use Annotation Scale option for the fittings. The default (for new elements) is set under Mechanical Settings, but all existing elements would have to be changed - there is a checkbox option "use annotation scale" under the element's Properties. As for the Rise/Drop, I didn't experiment with that very much, but I've heard a lot of comments about those being uncooperative. Other than that, I can't think of any options other then using Detail Items.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Message 8 of 17
bvanallen
in reply to: CVMN0501

Thanks cadastrophe, this is exactly what I was trying to do! Crate an annotative hatch with dimensional constraints associated with reference lines (I also tried reference planes). Load it into a model family (which always came in too large) & edit the dimensions (I had triedsetting them as family & shared parameters). When I tried this I always got "constraints not satisified" & had to cancel, so I'm not sure what I was doing wrong.

 

One thing I did notice; After loading your hatch example I clicked on the hatch and then went into edit family mode. In the annotative family, the bottom-left hand area of the main window lists a drawing scale. How did you get this to come up? In my annotative families I cant get it to show up and set the scale. It's automatically locked out at 1=1.

Message 9 of 17
CoreyDaun
in reply to: bvanallen

Create the hatch Family with the Detail Component (named Detail Item in 2013) Template, not the Generic Annotation Template. They behave VERY differently. I'd be happy to take a look at your Family to troubleshoot it you post it here.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Message 10 of 17
bvanallen
in reply to: CoreyDaun

Cadastrophe, I see!! Without a proper source to actually learn revit I've been having to scour the net for tips & tricks then learn the rest myself and hope it works. Everyhwere else I've been reading up on said filled regions neded to be made in annotation families. I didn't realize you could make them there as well.

 

This fixes my problem and lets me create scalable symbols that can have linked dimensions within a model family fixture. Thanks again.

 

FYI, For anyone else who gets this problem; The filled region wasn't showing up in my floor plan, but I have generic models turned of in my visibility settings. I went back into the hatch model and changed the Family Category to Lighting Fixtures. Voila!

Message 11 of 17
CoreyDaun
in reply to: bvanallen


bvanallen wrote:

"Cadastrophe, I see!! Without a proper source to actually learn revit I've been having to scour the net for tips & tricks then learn the rest myself and hope it works..."


I can relate - the only "official" training was a 3-Day [useless] course, but I was already beyond the level of the course, and the instructor could not answer any of my questions! Not one! Anyway, I've essentially self-taught myself Revit, but I wish I had found these forums early on. My advice is to use this resource as much as possible - there are a ton of answers here, so search first, and then ask if you don't find anything! Good luck - I'll likely be around if you need anything!

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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⁞|⁞ Please use Mark Solutions!.Accept as Solution and Give Kudos!Give Kudos as appropriate to further enhance these forums. Thank you!
Message 12 of 17
DMaurer-Veca
in reply to: CoreyDaun

Cadastrophe, thank you for the gift of the 'solid hatch half' symbol. I have been struggling with the emergency fixture symbol and this is the perfect solution. I always appreciate your contributions. Happy holidays and merry new year.

Diane M
Message 13 of 17
RandMan
in reply to: CoreyDaun

I havn't done much with the subjects in this thread, but I suspect I may find a use for this.  Would you mind posting a shot that compares a standard symbol, with one with this adaptive feature?

Message 14 of 17
CoreyDaun
in reply to: RandMan


DMaurer-Veca wrote:

"Cadastrophe, thank you for the gift of the 'solid hatch half' symbol. I have been struggling with the emergency fixture symbol and this is the perfect solution. I always appreciate your contributions. Happy holidays and merry new year."


 You more than welcome, Diane - happy to help! You have a great Holiday and New Year as well.

 

 


ran wrote:

"I havn't done much with the subjects in this thread, but I suspect I may find a use for this.  Would you mind posting a shot that compares a standard symbol, with one with this adaptive feature?"


Well, there's really not much that can be demonstrated by an image - the stadard lighting fixture is drawn with and represented by Detail Lines. The Detail Item Family (the hatch) is just a constrained Filled Region that can bee added to any rectangular fixture, even the "Out Of The Box" Families. Just let me know if I misunderstood you.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Message 15 of 17
DMaurer-Veca
in reply to: RandMan

See attached for sample.

Diane M
Message 16 of 17
CVMN0501
in reply to: CVMN0501

We'll i haven't solved one of my concerns, please see image below.

 

Capture.PNG

 

You can see the difference in the two by they're presentation. Generic annotation looks good, but the problem is if i had 2 drawings at different scales, in most cases drawings with overview at scales at 1:500 and split views at 1:100, the symbol for sprinkler would be very huge at the scale of 500. While Detail Item solves this, i got a dillema of hiding objects underneath the symbol as you can see in the image above.

Message 17 of 17
CoreyDaun
in reply to: CVMN0501

If it appears that Generic Annotations is the only way to go, then you may have to create an additional version of the Annotation Family to account for the desired scale and put it on a dedicated Detail Level. For instance, I would open the Generic Annotation Family, select all of the elements and go to V/G Overrides to make them hidden on Detail Level Medium. Then I would copy the elements off to the side and scale them to accommodate for the difference in scale, and set those elements to appear only on Detail Level: Medium. On the appropriate Views, you can set the Detail Level of the entire View or select Categories to Detail Level: Medium to display the desired annotation symbol size.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
⁞|⁞ Please use Mark Solutions!.Accept as Solution and Give Kudos!Give Kudos as appropriate to further enhance these forums. Thank you!

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