Single pole - single phase panel schedule

[jmlarias]

Hello everyone, I've been trying (really hard) to get a switchboard and some panels to schedule the information I need. My first problem is that the panelboards work at 230V (from Line to neutral) (Not Line to Line). I changed the schedules in all ways possibles and I cannot seem to arrive to get the panels to be assigned to Phase A only. I can make the panel schedule to show only the load changing the panel schedule options but hidden rest my second problem. I have 4 panels, single phase each one, and all identical. When I schedule the switchboard, there's always loads in both Phase A and Phase B in the same panel. I know the problem may not be resolved trough the schedule but I'd really like to know how to create my panels single phase with only one phase and/or how to assign him the phase correctly Here is a pic of what my schedules look like. By the way, All my 1ø elements have the poles set to 1.

[Martin__Schmid]

Hello - Roberts23, you can modify the panel schedle template to change the column headings, but this doesn't cause Revit to consider the system as a high leg delta configuration.

[Mark.Westerweele]

And how about the european style? We often use the same power cabinet for 1 phase and 3 phase circuits. Now revit puts all 1 phase circuits on phase one, that is not how we do it.

It should look like:

1 230V phase 1

2 230V phase 2

3 230V phase 3 

4 230V phase 1

5 230V phase 2

6 230V phase 3 

7 400V phase 1, 2 and 3

8 400V phase 1, 2 and 3

Now depending on with type of panel we select we eighter get all 230V on phase one, or the 400V spread across 3 groups, neighter option is desired, and we are really looking for an option as described above.

Kind regards,

Mark

[fabiosato]

Hello,

Just to confirm, the electrical connectors of the loads are set to Power-balanced or Power-Unbalanced?

If they are in the second option, I believe changing to balanced type will work.

To do that select the family in the project, open the family editor through Edit Family command, select the electrical connector and check the top parameter in the properties window, change the value and load the family in the project.

[Mark.Westerweele]

Thank you verry much,

I've checked our connectors, they are set to balanced, so sad to say that will not resolve the issue for me.

Maybe it could have something to do with the version we are working with?

We are using version 2015: 20140903_1530(x64)
                                            Update Release 4

Kind regards,

Mark Westerweele

[fabiosato]

Hello,

I remembered something that may cause the problem, if you are using revit 2016 or older, not using R2 upgrade(for subscription only), the attached setting may help.

They are available in the panel schedule template editor, clicking the rightmost icon.

I believe you panel is set to two phase, otherwise you wouldn't be able to connect two phase loads.

If you need single phase, enter the family editor and an check if the number of poles parameter of the connector is set to one or linked to a parameter to control it, I have seen some families that they are not linked.

[scott_dakin2]

Even when the panel is set to single pole it still puts loads on either phase A then on phase B.

Putting single phase circuits on two different phases on a single phase board is bizzare, by definition it would not be single phase as there should not be a second phase to put the circuits on. That would be a two phase board, not a single phase board. Why is there a B phase??

You should note that the UK 2-wire is not necessarily the same as the USA 2-wire. USA is phase to phase with 240v, or phase to neutral 120v. The UK is phase to neutral 230v. There is no UK phase to neutral 120v like there is in the USA.

Even in the USA I don't see why Revit puts loads on A or B but not both at the same time if the intention is to have the load be dual phase. Maybe it is actually a two phase and neutral board so you can choose from A+N 120v, B+N 120v or A+B 240v.

I don't get the Branch Panel or Switch Panel comments, they should work in the same way with the same phases and voltages.

As I see it Revit needs the following UK configurations:

230v single phase and neutral (2 live wires - live, neutral, earth)

400v three phase (3 live wires - live 1, live 2, live 3, earth)

400v three phase and neutral (4 live wires - live 1, live 2, live 3, neutral, earth)

[fabiosato]

Hello Scott,

You should use a panel with part type set to switchboard and connect single phase loads, so they will all be in the same phase.

Yes this is a workaround a oddly the panel must be set to three phase one.

You will have to adjust the panel template for switchboard as well.

[scott_dakin2]

Hi fabiosato, do I not understand you or is that as odd as it sounds? A switchboard would still have three phases but only put the circuits on one. Would it require a three phase supply? I'll have to try it.

Why do the switchboard and switchpanel sub-category types exist, why do switchboard and branch panel templates (circuit charts) exist.

Why is there not just 1 phase (UK & USA), 2 phase (USA only) and 3 phase (UK & USA) panels with corresponding panel schedules.

Have Autodesk never met an electrical engineer? I can't get my head around any of this, its all completely nonsensical.

[fabiosato]

Hello Scott,

You understanded it right, it is odd.

When you have a switchboard, all loads as connected considering the three phases, but, if they are single pole, they will be connected to the first phase only, in the panel schedule they show the total load, but, as they are single phase, they correspond to the total.

It is illogical thinking as an electrical project, but software wise, it works....

Autodesk is aware of the problem, I have personally complained about it and place an idea in the forums to try to correct this problem, I believe there were not enough support in this area when they created the electrical part.

I have made a report to Autodesk about many inconsistencies of the software, and as beta tester, I know they are trying to address them. But it also depends on the product development road map.

I suggest you to vote for the ideas you agree in the forum, this can influence the road map, as more people demands.

[scott_dakin2]

I have trialled the switchboard and it is exactly as you describe.

I'll have to change the way I work, it's unfortunate that this is not explained anywhere in the software or help files.

It makes no sense whatsoever, even the OEM Distribution Board SPN family, which is UK specific content, comes as a branch panel which is wrong.

The GBRENU electrical template which I think is UK specific comes with 277v in the village setting GA, we don't have that over here.

Even if Autodesk changed the stock families that comes with Revit to the correct settings it would help people avoid mistakes when they reuse or copy and modify the content.

Roadmap be damned, they need to fix all the broken stuff in their MEP content and fix the way it works. It's all fair and good creating new content but they need to fix the systems that exist so they work properly too.

[Martin__Schmid]

hi @Mark.Westerweele - 

I wanted to understand your comment about ''european style".. there are a variety of ways that circuits are identified across europe, for example, in France, circuits may be numbered such as R1, R2, R3... for receptacles, and L1, L2, L3... for lighting (probably not R or L, but hopefully you get the point)... conversely, in the UK, circuits are numbered 1L1, 1L2, 1L3, 2L123, etc.. or, to use your example, it would be:

1L1 230V phase 1

1L2 230V phase 2

1L3 230V phase 3 

2L1 230V phase 1

2L2 230V phase 2

2L3 230V phase 3 

3L123 400V phase 1, 2 and 3

4L123 400V phase 1, 2 and 3

In your example, you just used sequential numbers... is that a common convention that you use?

[Martin__Schmid]

Support for single phase, line-to-neutral panels was added in Revit 2021.  If there are outstanding issues, gaps, or other related improvements, please submit new Ideas.