Revit WHO and WHY

[mojova]

sorry in advance for the long winded post but I came across this article http://tinyurl.com/ydlt4n5 at one of the blogs that I check on periodically, the Revit Zone. It got me thinking of a few things...

at first read i thought it sounded a lot like promotional material (probably a bit of truth to that) especially when offering up numbers of 1000% return on investment in implementing BIM in the same paragraph supposedly to address "moving beyond the hype" of BIM. It also goes on to suggest that each detail down to pnuematic tubing as well as hangers should be modeled to get the best possible outcome with using BIM for coordination...(I just about fell out of my chair when I read that). Well, wild claims and miguided direction aside, what really interested me is the questions of WHO and WHY discussed in the article.

The WHO questions regarding modeling is one where I start to agree with the author...If the design team is 100% committed to creating a virtual model but that can't really be used for model based estimating or pre fabrication or automated fabrication of components and the contractors have to create separate models for each of those and therefore ADDING to the resources and effort to complete the project. The author mentions that trades doing the work should be involved early and work in collaboration with the design team to create models. how does that work with traditional bid type projects? Do we move from this when using BIM?

The WHY question and software interoperability become key issues then...why create a model with one program if it can't be directly used for fabrication by the contractor, why create a virtual model if only delivering 2D sets of plans, do contractors give up some of their coordination responsibility to the architect/engineer who is creating the virtual model in the design phase, are they even willing to do that?

I realize that we are sort of in this transition period to a new way of doing things and that a lot of these issues have yet to be resolved. Revit seems to want to position itself as the "gold standard" in being in the center of it all but I would say has a ways to go. I'd really be interested to see the deliverables on the projects mentioned at the end of the article or in some of the more successfully implemented BIM projects and the overall approach to IPD (couldn't Autodesk help with getting examples of these? they're not shy in having us help with their product development).

I have a feeling that most users are in the same boat that I am in that we haven't yet answered the WHO or WHY and are using, in this case Revit, to deliver projects more or less the same as we always have. We will have some advantage of coordination (although I'm not sure it's that much greater than using traditional drawing), and better accuracy in the drawings/schedules, and will hopefully have a complete model at the end of the project. Is that enough??

mike

[fishandchips47]

The contractors have to produce 2d shop drawings as a contractual obligation. Since they often prefab from a 3d model used to produce the 2d shop drawings those models need to be able to "talk" to their cam equipment or exist in software with spooling capabilities and have real world physical characteristics so QTO or BOM can be obtained. Depending on if they buy base equipment or alternates, their model may vary from the revit model in terms of routing, oreientation etc. The original revit model should give improved design intent coordination over traditional methods, but the contractors models will typically be clash checked in Navis prior to coordination sign-off. The revit model would need to be updated with data from the contractors after construction if the owner wants to use it later for facilities management. The revit model is not intended to be used by the contractors for anything else but an electronic go-by. It is not and likely never will be a substitute for each contractor's model. It has been my experience that the mep revit model has not been thoroughly clash checked/coordinated between disciplines, even when such come from the same firm, but is usually much better coordinated with structural and architectura building elements than formerly.

[Jrobker]

* The surveyed companies, who actively track their return on investment from BIM, say they are getting returns of 300% to 500%.

* 82% of respondents believe BIM is having a positive impact on their company's productivity.

I don't think these results are from the MEP Engineering side.
I believe those numbers are from contractors and owners.

We had to upgrade our server to a 10GB connection
New switchs
4GB trunk infrastructure.
12 new 64 bit quad core 12GB ram machines
Purchase many revit licenses.
Trained 12 users on the 3-day course.

On our first project we were out of budget at 90%CD

Since than, every project we have sent out the door, we have seen improvements in our modeling and time management.
The fact is it takes so much longer to model.
I can see the potential that this software (BIM) has, but not in the first 2 years of implementation.

Honestly, I don't see returns like that for years (if ever). We are so far behind already with investments it could take a while.

Once Adesk deploys Revit MEP software that responds much quicker, with less wait time, using it will be a no brainer.

I would like to know WHO as well.

[Anonymous]

I have the same delima. We are a designn build contractor that is starting to work with the BIM world. I have some smaller projects we are using as test cases to bring ourselves up to speed. What software do we need to have onboard. I downloaded the Revit Arch 2010 and have been modeling our 8,000 sf class 10,000 clean room and when I got to the mechanical and electrical systems I am coming to realize that the only way to model those systems is with MEP not Revit Arch. So... as a design build contractor who wants to offer the advantages of a functioning model to the our facilities owners, do I need both software, build the architectural building in Revit Arch and them build the Mech and Elect model in Revit MEP. Or does MEP do both..... We dont always have engineering firms that run Revit and many live in the 2D world.

Any advice on the best path to follow would be appreciated.