Revit MEP - Coordination of plumbing fixtures and light fixtures

[Anonymous]

One of the new features of Revit MEP is the ability to copy/monitor light
fixtures, plumbing fixtures, air diffusers, etc. from a linked architectural
model. Has anybody tried it yet? And if so did you observe the same behavior
that I did?

1) Copy monitor the levels from the arch model first.
2) Copy monitor some plumbing fixtures and light fixtures.
3) Modify the architectural model - move a plumbing fixture and a light
fixture. Then delete another plumbing fixture and a light fixture. Save the
file.
4) Reload the architectural model link in the MEP model. Initiate
Coordination Review.

You should note that the deleted plumbing fixture and light fixture are
listed, with the expected options, one of them being to delete the
corresponding components in the MEP model. But... the MOVED plumbing fixture
is not even reported. And the moved light fixture, while reported, only
gives you the options to Reject, Postpone or Accept Difference, not move the
light fixture in the MEP model. And then if you manually move the MEP light
fixture to match the architectural fixture you get yet another "Model needs
coordination review" warning.

I haven't tested any other components.

[Anonymous]

Hi Matt,

In my test I do get the notification "Relative position of Fixture changed"
for Plumbing Fixtures after they have been moved in the Architecture file.
Is it possible that you can send me the files that you were using so we can
take a look at it?

Thanks,
Anna

"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:6374778@discussion.autodesk.com...
One of the new features of Revit MEP is the ability to copy/monitor light
fixtures, plumbing fixtures, air diffusers, etc. from a linked architectural
model. Has anybody tried it yet? And if so did you observe the same behavior
that I did?

1) Copy monitor the levels from the arch model first.
2) Copy monitor some plumbing fixtures and light fixtures.
3) Modify the architectural model - move a plumbing fixture and a light
fixture. Then delete another plumbing fixture and a light fixture. Save the
file.
4) Reload the architectural model link in the MEP model. Initiate
Coordination Review.

You should note that the deleted plumbing fixture and light fixture are
listed, with the expected options, one of them being to delete the
corresponding components in the MEP model. But... the MOVED plumbing fixture
is not even reported. And the moved light fixture, while reported, only
gives you the options to Reject, Postpone or Accept Difference, not move the
light fixture in the MEP model. And then if you manually move the MEP light
fixture to match the architectural fixture you get yet another "Model needs
coordination review" warning.

I haven't tested any other components.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Anna. Actually I've got a support request open with you guys on
this - I sent Jeremy a WMV file of what's happening yesterday. I can post
the files as well if necessary.

"Anna Oscarson [Autodesk]" wrote in message
news:6376404@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Hi Matt,
>
> In my test I do get the notification "Relative position of Fixture
> changed" for Plumbing Fixtures after they have been moved in the
> Architecture file. Is it possible that you can send me the files that you
> were using so we can take a look at it?
>
> Thanks,
> Anna
>
> "Matt Dillon" wrote in message
> news:6374778@discussion.autodesk.com...
> One of the new features of Revit MEP is the ability to copy/monitor light
> fixtures, plumbing fixtures, air diffusers, etc. from a linked
> architectural
> model. Has anybody tried it yet? And if so did you observe the same
> behavior
> that I did?
>
> 1) Copy monitor the levels from the arch model first.
> 2) Copy monitor some plumbing fixtures and light fixtures.
> 3) Modify the architectural model - move a plumbing fixture and a light
> fixture. Then delete another plumbing fixture and a light fixture. Save
> the
> file.
> 4) Reload the architectural model link in the MEP model. Initiate
> Coordination Review.
>
> You should note that the deleted plumbing fixture and light fixture are
> listed, with the expected options, one of them being to delete the
> corresponding components in the MEP model. But... the MOVED plumbing
> fixture
> is not even reported. And the moved light fixture, while reported, only
> gives you the options to Reject, Postpone or Accept Difference, not move
> the
> light fixture in the MEP model. And then if you manually move the MEP
> light
> fixture to match the architectural fixture you get yet another "Model
> needs
> coordination review" warning.
>
> I haven't tested any other components.

[Anonymous]

Update...

Apparently some of what I'm experiencing is "By Design" - not sure why, but
I guess it's better than no copy/monitor at all. The lack of notification of
a moved plumbing fixture isn't being reproduced, however - so perhaps that's
something with my file. Stay tuned...

"Anna Oscarson [Autodesk]" wrote in message
news:6376404@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Hi Matt,
>
> In my test I do get the notification "Relative position of Fixture
> changed" for Plumbing Fixtures after they have been moved in the
> Architecture file. Is it possible that you can send me the files that you
> were using so we can take a look at it?
>
> Thanks,
> Anna
>
> "Matt Dillon" wrote in message
> news:6374778@discussion.autodesk.com...
> One of the new features of Revit MEP is the ability to copy/monitor light
> fixtures, plumbing fixtures, air diffusers, etc. from a linked
> architectural
> model. Has anybody tried it yet? And if so did you observe the same
> behavior
> that I did?
>
> 1) Copy monitor the levels from the arch model first.
> 2) Copy monitor some plumbing fixtures and light fixtures.
> 3) Modify the architectural model - move a plumbing fixture and a light
> fixture. Then delete another plumbing fixture and a light fixture. Save
> the
> file.
> 4) Reload the architectural model link in the MEP model. Initiate
> Coordination Review.
>
> You should note that the deleted plumbing fixture and light fixture are
> listed, with the expected options, one of them being to delete the
> corresponding components in the MEP model. But... the MOVED plumbing
> fixture
> is not even reported. And the moved light fixture, while reported, only
> gives you the options to Reject, Postpone or Accept Difference, not move
> the
> light fixture in the MEP model. And then if you manually move the MEP
> light
> fixture to match the architectural fixture you get yet another "Model
> needs
> coordination review" warning.
>
> I haven't tested any other components.

[emcgann]

Is anyone else noticing hosting issues. The only way I can get this to work is if the Arch model has placed fixtures from the MEP library, and I do a "copy original".

If the insertion points are different or if the hosting type is different, my fixtures don't copy in the correct location. Also, if the arch fixtures are wall based (i.e. a plumbing fixture) and I copy and specify mapping to swap it out for an MEP fixture, it comes in on the wrong side of the wall, or hosted to the floor.

I'm assuming the workflow is for the arch to place in fixtures from the MEP library for this to work accurately. With this being said, I'd assume that they would have modified the OOTB library for architecture to include the same fixtures as are in the OOTB Revit MEP library.

Maybe I'm missing something here - anyone else notice the same thing?

[Martin__Schmid]

When you specify what fixtures to use during copy/monitor, the orientations of the 'linked' fixture and the 'host' fixture should match. Simple example... if a architect has a 2x4 that is oriented in the family definition 'east/west', and you specify to use a fixture from your model, also a 2x4, but oriented 'north/south', Revit has no knowledge of this, thus, it will appear the the fixtures are rotated on the copy operation (when in reality, their rotations are the same, just the orientations are different.) Similarly, if the architectural lighting fixture has the insertion point at the 'lower left corner', but yours is at the 'center', in this case, it will appear that the fixture shifts (when in reality, their location is the same).

My suggestion would be to copy/monitor the architect's fixtures to get the proper geometry, then modify as necessary to include the necessary connectors. Of course, this means you'd have to add in any typical shared params, etc.

In many cases, the architect isn't using OOTB fixtures, as such, pairity between the delivered Architectural and MEP content wouldn't necessarily 'fix' the problem.

[helsed]

OK - Can we revisit and refresh an update from Autodesk on this. While I understand Martin's answer - I would like to circle back to Matt's original questions regarding how this should actually work.

My scenario is that we are a full service AE, with all disciplines attempting to work in Revit. Per what has been described above - we have generated a "Standard" library of fixtures w/ plumbing connectors that has been coordinated with Arch/Plbg disciplines, and we include them in our Arch template. This resolves the positioning, etc. When we copy / monitor - but not the other issues identified. So - I would like some clarification on the questions below;

1. When Copy / Monitoring - if fixture is moved / changed / deleted in arch file - should I be getting a message in my plbg model for coordination review?
2. If yes - the message I receive in coordination review should provide me with what options?
3. If there is not the capability or option to update per monitored file - what is the purpose of the available functionality?
4. If the update needs to be done manually - what is the best practice suggested by Autodesk on how to accomplish this without breaking the connections between the fixtures and the system?

Thanks for any help and direction!

Dean

[Bill.Knittle]

Martin,

I understand your family insertion point and rotation comment completely. However, I came across the same issue as Matt Dillon. I did a test Electrical project with a linked Arch model containing a single 2x4 120V troffer. I monitored the Levels and batch copied out the original parabolic troffer. No problemo. My issue is when I move the light in the link, Coordination Review Manage sees it and gives me the coordination warning. So, I manually move the copy to match the link. I would expect the issue to be reconciled but, I too receive a secondary coordination warning. Why?

If you go to Steve Stafford's RevitOpEd post on "Dept of Quirky - Copy Monitor Fixtures" he addresses the rotational issue as being ignored. When he moves the copied light to match the relocated linked light, he doesn't receive a secondary warning and Coordination Review Manager is clear of any warnings.

Am I missing something too?

[mmermel]

I just got into this issue myself (MEP Firm), trying to work out with one of our clients (Architect) the best way to handle ceilings, ceiling fixtures, changes to same, etc.

I was totally disappointed to find that Batch Copy is nice for a sales pitch, but not not as helpful as it could be.

Most of the lighting manufacturers are creating their fixtures with the insertion point at the center of the fixture.  It may be easier to have them modify their generic fixtures to match what the real world is doing.  Or, the MEP firm could provide the architect with a modified set of generic fixtures.  I almost like that idea.  It beats having to fix all the manufacturer's models.