Revit MEP

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Active Member
mmouvet
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎07-02-2012
Message 1 of 11 (582 Views)
Accepted Solution

Phasing and hidden lines

582 Views, 10 Replies
11-18-2013 05:04 PM

I have a problem with New Works and hidden lines.

 

Existing model elements like pipes and pumps and fittings all have hidden line detail.

Whereas the New Works elements (also Pipes, fittings and Mech equipment) do not. All new works, regardless of weather the pipes cross over each other or over equipment, they are still solid line.

Discipline and sub discipline are Mech and HVAC respectively. 

I have attached some images to illustrate what I am having trouble with.

The larger image has 3 areas highlighted in red.

Number 1 clearly shows hidden line detail on existing elements.

Number 2 shows New elements shown as bold continuous lines.

Number 3 shows I have the view at fine detail, hidden line.

 

The second attachment shows how my phase filters are set up.

 

The 3rd shows how my visibility graphics are set up. 

 

Where do I find the setting where hidden lines can override all phasing? 

 

Where am I going wrong?

 

EDIT: The same applies to my centre lines.

*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 2 of 11 (537 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-19-2013 04:19 AM in reply to: mmouvet

It looks like you've modified your Phase Filters quite a bit. The image below depicts the default settings associated with the default Mechanical Template.

 

The first see that you've changed the "New" column for all of your Filters to "Overridden". This means that instead of obeying the Object Styles or Visibility/Graphics Overrides, new elements will follow whatever override settings are defined in the Graphics Overrides tab under Phasing. My assumption is that there is a "Solid Line" Override in effect here. By the default settings, New should be set to "By Category" so that new elements obey Object Styles and other visibility settings according to their Category.

 

Secondly, you've set all of your "Existing" to "By Category". This means that your Existing Elements will obey the normal Object Styles and Visibility/Graphics Overrides. Normally, Existing elements are set to "Overridden" so that the Graphics Overrides can apply a gray or otherwise diminished appearance to existing elements. By default, the corresponding Graphics Overrides for existing elements is a gray color and a solid line with a lessened weight (Projection Lines: 2, Cut Lines: 3). Because of the Solid Line Pattern override, Existing elements do not display Hidden Lines. If you would like to alter the appearance of existing elements, you can do so under the Graphics Overrides tab, and for instance, remove the Line Pattern Override, but leave the gray color and line weight overrides in place.

 

PhaseFilterSettings.JPG

 

Don't hesitate to post if you have any questions or if any of this is unclear!

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Active Member
mmouvet
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎07-02-2012
Message 3 of 11 (502 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-19-2013 02:51 PM in reply to: CADastrophe

I want the new items to be bold as per the phasing, but not the detail lines: hidden and centre. 

They have to be exclusive of the new works. 

*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 4 of 11 (490 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-19-2013 11:47 PM in reply to: mmouvet

Whatever overrides you apply with the Phase Filter Overrides will apply to all applicable elements, so all of your new elements will be displayed as one line weight. You cannot make exclusions to this, so if you want your Hidden and Centre Lines to not appear bold, you cannot use this method to get the bold appearance.

 

I would suggest changing the settings back to "By Category" as per the default settings and using Object Styles to dictate each Category's Line Weight. See the image below; note that the Duct and that big fat Pipe is very bold, but the centre line and the hidden lines (Duct under the Pipe) are thin. Under Object Styles, the default Line Weight of the Ducts and Pipes Categories is 5 by default, thus pretty bold.

 

The Center Lines belong to a Subcategory to Ducts and Pipes, and it can be set to whatever Line Weight you wish, but if the Phase Graphics Overrides are forcing a bold line onto all new elements, Object Styles will be overridden.

 

As for the Hidden Line, that a specific feature and the Line Weight of MEP Hidden Lines is defined in Manage tab » Additional Settings ▼ Line Styles, under the listing "MEP Hidden".

 

HiddenCenterLines.JPG

 

Again, if I've misunderstood your request or if this is unclear, please post!

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Active Member
mmouvet
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎07-02-2012
Message 5 of 11 (456 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-21-2013 03:16 PM in reply to: CADastrophe

So I set values to line thicknesses in Vis/Graphics and set all visible elements in phase filters to By Category.

Since I want new works to come out bold, but I want to maintain detail lines like Hidden and Centre lines It seemes to work...However;

 

Since I did that, all my existing lines have reverted to bold (as this is NOT the case - in our office, existing linework must be thin).

So, how do I address this? I can go to Phase Filters and set all Existing elements to Override and I get the same thing again, except in reverse:

 

 

By category New - exisitng override.JPG

 

As a matter of maintaining office standards, the methods stated above are inadequate for retrofit projects, where existing buidling elements share the same view as new. Am I missing something?

*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 6 of 11 (429 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-22-2013 08:32 PM in reply to: mmouvet

I would suggest using Object Styles to define each Category's Line Weight since that is a global setting. Visibility/Graphics Overrides only applies to the current View, but have a higher priority than Object Styles.

 

You will also have to restore the default Phase Filter Settings for Exiting as well (i.e. "Overridden" for "Show Previous + New"). That way, the appropriate Phase Graphics Overrides are applied to all existing elements, which takes priority over both Object Styles and V/G Overrides, thus making all existing elements display as a thin, gray, solid line (by the default settings).

 

Under the default settings for Phase Filters, you should get all of your new elements shown as bold lines while all existing elements are shown as thin lines. This is assuming that the correct Phase and Phase Filter as assigned to the View, in the case of a new work plan, "New Construction" and "Show Previous + New", respectively. You can try playing around with some elements and their phasing in a new Project using a default Project Template if you want to see how it looks if you don't want to change your Project's current settings.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Active Member
mmouvet
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎07-02-2012
Message 7 of 11 (408 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-24-2013 03:53 PM in reply to: CADastrophe

I have done all you have suggested and it seems to me that Revit does not make any differentiation between detail lines (centre and hidden) and phase filter conditions applied to the elements in that phase. Thick lines as per phase filter overrides translates to think detail lines, centre and hidden.

This needs attention on Autodesks part, as we here in Australia, are being pushed into BIM development, not just for new works (where Revit shines), but - for the most part - in refit/refurb works.

 

I have to say your assistance is exceptional Corey. I thank you for taking the time to repsond to all my queries and struggles, but I have to say the issue still remains, and is something Autodesk needs to give solid consideration in their next build of the Revit Suite.

Many thanks.

*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 8 of 11 (404 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-24-2013 04:26 PM in reply to: mmouvet

mmouvet wrote:

"I have done all you have suggested and it seems to me that Revit does not make any differentiation between detail lines (centre and hidden) and phase filter conditions applied to the elements in that phase. Thick lines as per phase filter overrides translates to think detail lines, centre and hidden..."


That's exactly why you want the Phase Filter to be "By Category" for new elements, so that it does not apply the Phase Graphics Overrides to them. The image below has been drawn using the default Phase Graphics settings - the only thing I changed was to go to Object Styles, and change the Pipe Centerlines subcategory to a Line Weight of 1. The Line Styles of the MEP Hidden Lines and Center Lines for the Existing elements can easily be show as their true Line Patterns by going to the Phase Graphics Overrides and removing the Solid Line Pattern from "Existing". Can you tell me what is inadequate about this image?

 

NewVsExisting.JPG

*All of elements shown here are part of the same View .

 

Also, note that the Mechanical Template also has System Graphics Overrides and there may be View Filters that are also affecting the appearance of the elements in you Views.

 


mmouvet wrote:

"...I have to say your assistance is exceptional Corey. I thank you for taking the time to repsond to all my queries and struggles, but I have to say the issue still remains, and is something Autodesk needs to give solid consideration in their next build of the Revit Suite.

Many thanks."


I appreciate that remark. My goal here is to help you achieve what you are aiming to accomplish and although my assistance may not be 'top-notch', I'm always happy to provide it.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Active Member
mmouvet
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎07-02-2012
Message 9 of 11 (397 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-24-2013 04:43 PM in reply to: CADastrophe

I appreciate the effort that you have gone to, but I have to say the centrelines and hidden lines for the existing elements should be the same as the new. In the existing phase represented in your example, there is no differentiation between a pipework linetype and a centreline (on paper). In a complex plantroom, where there are many overlapping layers of pipework, there should be clarity. They are detail line types that shouldn't change between the phases. There should be no ambiguity - a centreline should show as centre line, no matter the phase, same as hidden. 

This is how our office has represented these two linetypes because we document designs that both contractor and client needs to interpret.

Again, many thanks for your assistance, but I see that our office standards are at odds with how Autodesk does things.

*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 10 of 11 (378 Views)

Re: Phasing and hidden lines

11-25-2013 05:15 AM in reply to: mmouvet

I'll attempt once more with a single image and if you're still convinced that Revit cannot give you what you're looking for, I'll put this to rest.

 

NewVsExisting2.JPG

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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