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parameters in formulas and Load classifications

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Message 1 of 5
jmlarias
1010 Views, 4 Replies

parameters in formulas and Load classifications

To get the idea simple, this is the system One main panelboard that feeds 5 terminal panels. I'd like to calculate my feeders with the help of the panel schedules or o workaround with normal schedules. For the loads connected to the terminal panels I have no problems ( the ones downstream). The issues are this ones: 1 - I cannot use the equipment parameters (the ones listed in the picture) to use them in a formula. 2 - I'd like to list in the main panelboard panel schedule the loads under the Load classification of "Tableau domestique" similarly to how they are listed in the circuit side. I've already set demand factors quantity dependent to these Load Classification but the problem is that the loads shown are the sumatory of the loads already listed in the terminal panels I just want to show the panels because I have to reapply a demand factor (Actually is a coincidence factor) to these guys to be able to calculate the feeders from Revit. If anybody has found a way to do this with a minimun of manual entries, I can send you pictures of what's going on and I'd really appreciate a hint of what I can do or cannot. Thank you very much,
4 REPLIES 4
Message 2 of 5
jmlarias
in reply to: jmlarias

Well, we're slowly understanding the problem. For the moment, I've noticed that all loads are "transfered" from the terminal panels to the main panelboard. That could explain why all loads are listed in the load summary part of the schedule.When I saw in the circuit table of the panel schedule the name and the load connected of each panel connected I thought that loads were now "concentrated" in the terminal panels wich doesn't seem to be the case. Even though I realised that, that takes me farther from the solution the dinamic revit feeder sizing.
Message 3 of 5
jmlarias
in reply to: jmlarias

And could also explain why instead of the Load Classification of each terminal panel, the ones showed are the addition of all loads connected to the terminal panels. The load classification of a terminal panel is only shown in a superior panel's panel schedule when the terminal panel has 0 VA connected. To not confuse anybody, I will clarify again, Terminal panel = panel downstream main panelboard = panel upstream Any help is really welcomed.
Message 4 of 5
CoreyDaun
in reply to: jmlarias

Just glancing at this briefly while I had a moment. You referenced a picture in your original post, but there is not one attached (it could be an Internet Explorer issue).

 

Revit is quite lacking electrically (as I'm sure you know), and some things just shouldn't or can't be handled by it. In many cases, one cannot take manual work completely out of the process. Perhaps the best method would be to set up Electrical Circuit or Electrical Equipment Schedules that perform all of the rudimentary calculations, and allow the user to make use of them while accounting for some things which Revit cannot do or do well, such as voltage drop.

 

With that in mind, I was fiddling around trying to get feeders to size automatically in Revit and managed to get it to work through the use of insane formulas. Expand the Spoiler below to see it. I created an Excel sheet that compiles and formats this formula based on our company standards.

 

Spoiler
if(not(Feeder_Automate), Feeder_Specified, if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 4000 A, "INVALID SIZE!", if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 3000 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "10 SETS OF 4''C.-3#600kcmil & 1#500GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "10 SETS OF 4 1/2''C.-5#600kcmil & 1#500GD.", "10 SETS OF 4''C.-4#600kcmil & 1#500GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 2500 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "8 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-3#500kcmil & 1#400GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "8 SETS OF 4''C.-5#500kcmil & 1#400GD.", "8 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#500kcmil & 1#400GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 2000 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "6 SETS OF 4''C.-3#600kcmil & 1#350GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "6 SETS OF 4 1/2''C.-5#600kcmil & 1#350GD.", "6 SETS OF 4''C.-4#600kcmil & 1#350GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 1600 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "6 SETS OF 3''C.-3#400kcmil & 1#250GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "6 SETS OF 4''C.-5#400kcmil & 1#250GD.", "6 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#400kcmil & 1#250GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 1200 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "5 SETS OF 3''C.-3#400kcmil & 1#4/0GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "5 SETS OF 4''C.-5#400kcmil & 1#4/0GD.", "5 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#400kcmil & 1#4/0GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 1000 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "4 SETS OF 3''C.-3#350kcmil & 1#3/0GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "4 SETS OF 4''C.-5#350kcmil & 1#3/0GD.", "4 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#350kcmil & 1#3/0GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 800 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3 SETS OF 3''C.-3#400kcmil & 1#2/0GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "3 SETS OF 4''C.-5#400kcmil & 1#2/0GD.", "3 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#400kcmil & 1#2/0GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 700 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-3#500kcmil & 1#1/0GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 SETS OF 4''C.-5#500kcmil & 1#1/0GD.", "2 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#500kcmil & 1#1/0GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 600 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2 SETS OF 3''C.-3#400kcmil & 1#1/0GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 SETS OF 4''C.-5#400kcmil & 1#1/0GD.", "2 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#400kcmil & 1#1/0GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 500 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2 SETS OF 3''C.-3#350kcmil & 1#1GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 SETS OF 4''C.-5#350kcmil & 1#1GD.", "2 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-4#350kcmil & 1#1GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 450 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2 SETS OF 3''C.-3#250kcmil & 1#2GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 SETS OF 3 1/2''C.-5#250kcmil & 1#2GD.", "2 SETS OF 3''C.-4#250kcmil & 1#2GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 400 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2 SETS OF 2 1/2''C.-3#4/0 & 1#2GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 SETS OF 3''C.-5#4/0 & 1#2GD.", "2 SETS OF 2 1/2''C.-4#4/0 & 1#2GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 350 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3 1/2''C.-3#500kcmil & 1#3GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "4''C.-5#500kcmil & 1#3GD.", "3 1/2''C.-4#500kcmil & 1#3GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 300 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3''C.-3#400kcmil & 1#3GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "4''C.-5#400kcmil & 1#3GD.", "3 1/2''C.-4#400kcmil & 1#3GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 250 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3''C.-3#350kcmil & 1#4GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "4''C.-5#350kcmil & 1#4GD.", "3 1/2''C.-4#350kcmil & 1#4GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 225 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3''C.-3#250kcmil & 1#4GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "3 1/2''C.-5#250kcmil & 1#4GD.", "3''C.-4#250kcmil & 1#4GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 200 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2 1/2''C.-3#4/0 & 1#4GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "3''C.-5#4/0 & 1#4GD.", "2 1/2''C.-4#4/0 & 1#4GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 175 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2''C.-3#3/0 & 1#6GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 1/2''C.-5#3/0 & 1#6GD.", "2''C.-4#3/0 & 1#6GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 150 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2''C.-3#2/0 & 1#6GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 1/2''C.-5#2/0 & 1#6GD.", "2''C.-4#2/0 & 1#6GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 125 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "2''C.-3#1/0 & 1#6GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 1/2''C.-5#1/0 & 1#6GD.", "2''C.-4#1/0 & 1#6GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 110 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1 1/2''C.-3#1 & 1#6GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2 1/2''C.-3#1,1#250kcmil & 1#6GD.", "2''C.-4#1 & 1#6GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 100 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1 1/4''C.-3#2 & 1#6GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "2''C.-3#2,1#3/0 & 1#6GD.", "1 1/2''C.-4#2 & 1#6GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 90 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1 1/4''C.-3#3 & 1#8GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/2''C.-3#3,1#3/0 & 1#8GD.", "1 1/4''C.-4#3 & 1#8GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 80 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1 1/4''C.-3#3 & 1#8GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/2''C.-3#3,1#2/0 & 1#8GD.", "1 1/4''C.-4#3 & 1#8GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 70 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1 1/4''C.-3#4 & 1#8GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/2''C.-3#4,1#1/0 & 1#8GD.", "1 1/4''C.-4#4 & 1#8GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 60 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1 1/4''C.-3#4 & 1#8GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/2''C.-3#4,1#1 & 1#8GD.", "1 1/4''C.-4#4 & 1#8GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 50 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1''C.-3#6 & 1#10GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/4''C.-3#6,1#2 & 1#10GD.", "1''C.-4#6 & 1#10GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 45 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1''C.-3#8 & 1#10GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/4''C.-3#8,1#3 & 1#10GD.", "1''C.-4#8 & 1#10GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 40 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1''C.-3#8 & 1#10GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/4''C.-3#8,1#3 & 1#10GD.", "1''C.-4#8 & 1#10GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 35 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1''C.-3#8 & 1#10GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/4''C.-3#8,1#4 & 1#10GD.", "1''C.-4#8 & 1#10GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 30 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "1''C.-3#8 & 1#10GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1 1/4''C.-3#8,1#4 & 1#10GD.", "1''C.-4#8 & 1#10GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 25 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3/4''C.-3#10 & 1#10GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1''C.-3#10,1#6 & 1#10GD.", "3/4''C.-4#10 & 1#10GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 20 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3/4''C.-3#10 & 1#10GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1''C.-3#10,1#8 & 1#10GD.", "3/4''C.-4#10 & 1#10GD.")), if(Main_Circuit_Breaker > 15 A, if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3/4''C.-3#12 & 1#12GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1''C.-3#12,1#8 & 1#12GD.", "3/4''C.-4#12 & 1#12GD.")), if(Three_Wire_Feeder, "3/4''C.-3#12 & 1#12GD.", if(200%_Neutral, "1''C.-3#12,1#10 & 1#12GD.", "3/4''C.-4#12 & 1#12GD."))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

DistPanelFeeder.JPG

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Message 5 of 5
jmlarias
in reply to: CoreyDaun

Wow! That formula is twice as large as the one I use in excel for my feeders calculation. About the picture, yes I've been having issues posting the attachments. When I click, it just go back to the top and nothing happens. But back to the issue, I see how I can create shared parameters and assign them to different categories to add them to the schedule and make the calculations (deduced it from your formula, so thanks). With this, I can reduce the calculation a lot. If there would be a way to link a parameter between the total number of elements connected in the circuit, that would allow me to get the whole thing together. I will use your paradigm to assing the values of my factors and manually enter the quantity of elements connected downstream where needed. Thanks a lot Corey!

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